…sexual assault? I don’t think you get to decide whether or not it was “minor” or not.
It seems to miss a lot of the context, IMHO. “Well noted pervert, Luis Rubiale, who has a questionable history when it comes to treating women with disrespect, forced a player to kiss him” arguably also provides context.
Those fans and players were kissing and hugging with consent. And if there wasn’t consent? That was wrong too.
If somebody stole $5 from you, would you be ok not calling it theft because ‘theft implies a loss of significant value?’
Moreover, your comment seem to imply that only physical harm is relevant. An unwanted touching can lead to serious psychological and emotional harm- why wouldn’t that be sufficient?
A well known pervert? So taking into account his prior behaviors every hug and kiss he offered was probably sexual in nature. Cut off his balls! String him up by the hamstrings the dirty pervert!
In post 76 I quote the relevant article of the Spanish Penal Code and it includes in its second paragraph “sensory deprivation” (they mean drugs, for instance when drinks are spiked) and abuse of “mental situation” (after a shock, when unconscious after an accident, when completely drunk or during surgery/dentristryperformed with anesthesia). I believe the Spanish law is written in such a way as to be as broad as possible in its scope, trying to prevent loopholes.
I think, for some of us males who don’t seem to get it, they should try thinking of it this way.
The other half of the population is, on average, made up of people who are significantly bigger, stronger, and heavier than you, and an unknown percentage are essentially hunting for someone like you to penetrate sexually, or at least (and this is absurd btw) only groped or hugged or kissed. And, every time you go out, you have to be aware of your surroundings, in terms of that population and potential threats.
In this context there’s nothing funny, quaint or cute about a forced kiss from someone, even if they are not someone who is essentially your CEO.
…do you want to add context or not?
(My bold)
Why are you minimizing his behavior? He did more than offer a hug and kiss. He forced one.
And it doesn’t have to be sexual in nature to be improper. Really? A man can slap a woman, since it’s not sexual and has no likelihood of causing “a serious threat of harm”?
You added the context that he’s a well known pervert. That’s all the context needed right?
So if a man gently fondle a woman’s breasts, without her consent, that’s not an assault?
Fine with me if you say forced. So be it,
Assault is a continuum, not a binary
The fact an attempted rape that a woman (or man, for that matter) successfully fights off/escapes/evades is typically not as traumatic as a completed rape does not eliminate attempted rape from “sexual assault”. Likewise, spitting on someone is not in the same category as punching someone hard enough to render them unconscious, but the spit is still legally an assault.
A forced kiss is, yes, on the “lighter” end of the assault/sexual offense spectrum but it is still an assault. It’s unwanted physical contact. It is done without consent. And while it might be no big deal to the perpetrator to the receiver it really could be quite upsetting and even traumatizing.
I realize that most of us live in societies where men forcing their attentions on women has long been seen as acceptable, and that women are supposed to just put up with cat-calls, rude comments, constant interruptions, and forcible touching of their body parts but can we please, please get away from that? I don’t know any men who would put up with the harassment that is a routine and daily part of life for most women. As we have seen in this thread, there is a constant minimizing of women’s own experiences and feelings.
YES - a forced kiss is a Bad Thing. In any context.
NO ONE should be expected to put up with unwanted physical contact with others simply because “it’s part of the job”. Yes, soccer is a contact sport and players, by being players, realize there will be collisions with other players while playing the game. It should NOT be expected outside of the game itself, and certainly not between coaches/management/owners/other authority figures and players. Regardless of gender.
Yes.
It’s a minor assault. I don’t think anyone is advocating jail time. But it is unacceptable behavior.
My quibble is equating this act of his as a serious sexual assault which the law may recognize as assault but not sexual?
So you don’t think that forcing yourself on somebody is improper? What if some guy came up to you and put you in a headlock and gave you a noogie? Don’t worry, he’s laughing when he does it. And despite the possible embarrassment, and maybe a little physical discomfort, you’ll be fine.
A-ok?
What are you talking about?
^ This.
Why the hell do men get to “advance” an unwanted anything?
What gives YOU the right to touch MY body in any way at any time without my consent?
Why do we have to wait until escalates?
Who are you to determine what my feelings/reactions are to your action?
Are you saying it didn’t have a sexual aspect? I’m not sure what you mean.
You seem to want to discount this unwanted touching because it wasn’t going to cause serious harm, and wasn’t really sexual.
So how would you respond if that happened to you?
The fact that lots of other people are consensually hugging and kissing does not make it okay to force a kiss. It’s not my thing, but i have Facebook friends who attend actual orgies and describe them on Facebook. People are copulating all over the place. And there are VERY clear rules around consent, and how to initiate various activities, including kissing and back rubs.
Do you think they’d feel assaulted over an unwanted toe tickle?
nm, this is getting silly