Yes, a motion of no confidence, and it can’t be applied in this case.
I mean, what if he started coming to work 3 hours late every day, drunk. Are you really suggesting that he could not be fired?
Did I say that?
ETA: Oh, I think I see the misunderstanding. I’m saying that, according to that article, they can’t fire him for the kiss (and I wouldn’t swear that’s right, either). I wasn’t saying he can never be fired for any reason.
I suspect that the “motion of no confidence” thing is the mechanism for a routine replacement, if (say) the team were underperforming and they didn’t think he was doing a great job.
There will surely be other mechanisms to fire him for misconduct.
To some degree his not getting fired might be the worse for him. There are likely a significant some who would feel being fired was punishment enough, but if did not lose his job would more supportive of jail time, as he does deserve, and deterrence requires, some punishment.
And I think that is the key - the force. If I’m on a second date and getting good vibes and slowly lean in and kiss her on the lips and she didn’t back away or punch me in the gut and let me do it even if she didn’t want to is that sexual assault? Maybe, maybe not, maybe some middle ground. But what if I grabbed her face and restrained it for that kiss she didn’t want. I don’t see how that’s not sexual assault.
You are the only one who has brought up the question of her orientation. I have no idea why you think it’s relevant. It sounds like you’re projecting a psychology analogous to the “gay panic” defense onto people, as though what matters is whether a sexual advance is made by the preferred or non-preferred gender, rather than whether there is non-consensual assault.
Maybe it seems like a strange conclusion if you go strictly by the scene in Godfather II? I don’t know. I was thinking that in Sicily, il bacio della morte is administered to the designated assassin, not his target, as a means of sealing the fate of the betrayer. In turn, that practice is thought to have its origins in the Biblical story in which Judas kisses Jesus to signify to the mob that this man was their target. In neither case is the kiss a signal to the one marked for death, so I have trouble seeing how in these instances, this would be dominance behavior.
Godfather II, however, portrays the KOD as a message to Fredo that he is going to be killed, which could put a different spin on its intent.
I think, though, that il bacio della morte is traditionally given on the cheek, not the mouth. If you read or watch the Senate testimony of mobster hitman Joseph Valachi, for instance, it sounds like the Kiss of Death delivered to him in prison by mob boss Vito Genovese was a kiss on the cheek. That is, he said, “He grabbed my hand and gave me a kiss. So I turned around and gave him a kiss on the other side…to make him understand I was smart to him.”
If the KOD is traditionally delivered on the cheek, would that make it more or less likely to be dominant behavior?
As a multiple rape survivor: you don’t speak for me, and wanting appropriate punishment here does nothing to minimize my experience tyvm.
I say throw the book at the creep. This was sexual assault
You never entered my mind your experiences are your own. Don’t let my experiences color your own Tyvm @MrDibble
Well, thank you.
Interesting. But some court ordered counseling is clearly in order also.
No means no. IMO, ideally anything less than a very enthusiastic yes (which doesn’t have to be verbal) means no. If you physically restrain somebody in order to kiss them on the lips, you should really know that you don’t have their consent. Is it as ‘bad’ as rape? IMHO no. Is it sexual assualt? hell yes. Should he be punished? certainly.
Exactly - so don’t even try to use my experience (or that of any other sexual assault survivor) as cover. Speak only for yourself.
Well, no, I can’t, at least not for #2. I did say “#2 might be true, but I’d have to see some examples and/or evidence that it is.”
As for #1, I didn’t have any specific examples in mind. And I hesitate to offer any, because I don’t think that’s relevant to the thread and I don’t want to hijack it. In the context of this thread, I wasn’t trying to make a point of my own, but rather to clarify what I thought @Dinsdale’s point might be.
But it does seem obvious to me that there are some forms of bad behavior for which the appropriate response is not criminal prosecution but something else—from merely shrugging it off (at least in the case of a one-time honest mistake or misunderstanding), to a verbal reprimand, to being shunned and/or fired. And again, I do not mean to imply that this is true of the incident that this thread is about.
That doesn’t mean it’s not relevant. It just means you don’t understand why it might be relevant.
In his statement (it’s a PDF), he complains that it’s unfair, that he and his family have suffered ruthless persecution and mistruths, that he must think about what’s best for Spanish soccer, that the truth will prevail (his boldface)…and nary a mention of the player or what he did.
You’re right, the patriarchy is still there.
He didn’t just criticise her and deny her comments.
First, the Spanish soccer federation put out a press release, supposedly including a statement from the player that she did consent to the kiss.
When she denied it again, and said that she did not agree with the statement, the federation stated that they would sue her for her “lies”.
And when around 80 players said that they supported her and would not play again for the federation unless there were changes at the top leadership, the federation said that they would sue those players, too.
And in one article, which I read earlier but can’t find now, when he made his speech to a largely male leadership group of the federation, accusing her of lying, there were cheers.
Looks like the patriarchy is still there, but may be in for a bit of a fight with modern values.
That is good. The statement is whiny, but it’s his way of having the last word, and it won’t stick.
Oh my God, that’s way creepier than just the still photo of the forced kiss. I have no idea how i would react if a guy leapt into my arms and ground his crotch against me, but i would sure as hell feel assaulted.