When traveling US citizens have problems US Embassies aren't noted for being very helpful - Why?

In My Humble Opinion
1

When US citizens get involved in legal or logistical problems overseas it’s a common refrain by these people or their families seeking help that US embassies or consulates in those countries really don’t do much to help them in their plight, and often adopt a “hands off” attitude even if people are in dire straights.

Is this perception at all correct?

If it is is this because people have overblown ideas of what embassies can do or because embassies and consulates really don’t want to get too involved in whatever local legal or logistical tarpit some US traveller has managed to become enmeshed in?

2

WAG:
What people think an embassy can do and what they actually can do are rather different things?

3

What kind of “help” are we talking about? The embassy isn’t going to send the SEALs in to bust you out of jail for breaking local laws, but they’ll work pretty hard to straighten out passport or visa problems and such.

4

As somebody that lives in a place that could be easily compared to the Tower of Babel in terms of nationalities, I think it is a bit of both.

Some people (and not only Americans, I have seen the same with Canadians*) do expect their governments to bust them out of jail when they get in legal trouble. Or send the marines (or the mounties) because they got cheated on some deal with locals.

One thing we have all noticed is that the bigger the country in terms of population, the less enthusiastic their diplomatic representation seems to be. There isn’t even a Danish embassy here, yet we seem to receive a much better service than Americans with their huge compound in the capital (my daughter’s passports arrived with HC Andersen books with them :slight_smile: ).

*We have had two cases with Canadians getting into fights with other Canadians, in one case a Canadian youth was beaten to death, in another a Canadian ended up in the hospital with serious injuries. In both cases the perpetrators were arrested and the legal system took its course, in both cases the perpetrators took it to the Canadian media to criticize both the country and Canada for not doing “something”. In both cases the Canadian ambassador said they were following up on the case and making sure their rights were not violated. What they wanted Canada do, I am not sure.

5

More like those bigger countries have to deal with a large lot of potential customers and just by the laws of statistics there will be a larger number of them who will be problematic, so they’re not looking forward to it.

Oh dear, the disease, it’s catching across the border… save yourselves, Canadians! Don’t become like us!!!

6

As I’m sure you know, the embassy is the representative mission to the country in which it sits. Its sole purposes are to conduct foreign policy as set out by the administration in WDC and to run the visa mill. The embassy and its personnel are there at the forbearance of the host country; interference in their legal system would cause all manner of repercussions.

Americans who are arrested overseas are subject to the laws of the country in which they have transgressed. The only thing a person from the embassy can do is to perhaps visit the person in jail to ascertain if he is being treated properly, but that’s usually only when the person’s family contacts the embassy to ask for such a thing.

Now, it’s a different story when an American is stranded in a foreign country because his passport and identification have been stolen or lost. In that case, he can present himself at the consulate and ask for assistance. This usually consists of the consulate telling him to call his parents or someone else who has access to any sort of document copies such as a birth certificate or who can verify that he is who he says he is, and have them fax them to the consular staff. Once verified, the consul can issue papers that will get the person on a plane back to the nearest point of debarkation in the US. If the person has no money, or no way to obtain money, the embassy usually has an emergency petty cash fund and will “loan” the money to the person. Quite often, it’s never repaid.

When traveling overseas, it is always advisable to have a set of copied ID papers with you, and to leave a set with someone who can get them to you, if needed.

7

Now I’m dying of curiosity – where is this, please?

Do I correctly surmise that you’re a Danish citizen, then?

8

It’s not just the US Embassy. I knew two Brits who were “embassy husbands.” They were here because their wives were assigned to the British Embassy in Bangkok. They had some harrowing tales of British Bozos who would waltz in and want the craziest stuff. Said one guy’s plan was to travel the world until he ran out of money and then head to the nearest embassy, which happened to be the Bangkok one, and demand to be sent home for free. Shit like that.

The main purpose of embassies is to further relations between countries. Any help they give citizens is incidental. That help can be major or minor. The US Embassy in Bangkok has an American Services section that I personally have found always to be very helpful. As did a fellow American I knew 12 years ago, who had to undergo emergency brain surgery in Bangkok. The embassy went out of their way to help coordinate with Immigration and his family back in Denver.

9

Additionally, it is my understanding that embassies and consulates maintain a list of local lawyers who can advise the person who is alleged to have broken local law, and represent them in court. However, I further understand that embassies and consulates are under no obligation to pay for legal services sourced locally by the embassy’s/consulate’s citizens–they just maintain a list of reputable local lawyers.

10

Nitpick: If I’m not mistaken, the Vienna Convention requires the host country to notify the embassy if the arrestee so requests. The embassy doesn’t have to do anything in response to that notice, however.

11

My complete wag is that most people are complete morons who ask for moronic things after they did something moronic.

12

That is actually the correct answer to many (most?) questions ever asked.

13

The US embassy will help you if your passport is lost or stolen. If you are living abroad and need to renew a passport, get a passport for a child born abroad, or obtain extra pages, you can.

However, visas are a purely local issue - the US Embassy is not going to insert itself into the immigration process of whatever country you are in.

Many travelers, and even Americans living abroad, have little understanding of the purpose of embassies. They aren’t there specifically to help American citizens - they exist to foster diplomatic relations, promote American goods and services abroad, and (in the case of developing nations) oversee the administration of aid through affiliated organisations like USAID (which was independent but is now under the US State Department). Only the consular services section, which is but a small fragment of the overall embassy, is there for the express purpose of serving the needs of individual American citizens.

Having said that, they will assist in certain extreme situations - they can help with facilitating the arrangements to repatriate the body of an American who has died abroad, for example. In the event of a death of an American abroad, they will do what they can to notify relatives back in the US. And I don’t know exactly what they will do if you’ve been arrested, but if I’m not mistaken they will provide contact information for local legal representation and facilitate communications between the jailed citizen and family back home.

They also allow traveling Americans/those residing abroad to register, which can be a useful service if there is unrest/a disaster/somewhat mundane variations thereof. As registered Americans living in Indonesia, we receive regular e-mail updates about anticipated demonstrations or unusually high risks due to volcanic eruptions and the like.

One thing I’ve always found peculiar is how little the Embassy assists in terms of helping Americans abroad to vote. For voter registration, absentee ballots, etc., you are generally better off working with either Democrats Abroad or Republicans Abroad.

Misapprehensions about what embassies can do for their citizens aren’t limited to Americans. I know a British guy here who constantly complains bitterly that the British Ambassador never invites him to embassy parties, just because he happens to be one of the no doubt thousands, if not tens of thousands, of UK citizens residing in Indonesia. But that isn’t realistic. Only where the foreign presence is very small does that make sense. We used to get invited to the Fourth of July celebration at the US Embassy in Mozambique for the simple reason that we were Americans living in Maputo. But that’s because there were so few of us that it was doable.

14

Seriously, could you be more cryptic? Tower of Babel? WTH does that mean? Then you go on to tell tales of events ‘here’? Seriously?

Sheesh, it makes you sound like a teenager talking text speak, begging someone to ask, “Please share with us whatever that means, please!”

People, please, if you’re going to speak casually of events ‘hereabouts’, either identify some general location or don’t put inside jokes as your location in your profile. How hard is that to understand? Yet it happens all the time on this board.

15

No, but they’re the ones providing Visas (or not) to nationals of that country who wish to go to the US.

16

When I was living in Berlin, the US Consulate there (or whatever it was called then) was fairly friendly and quick when I needed to apply for a new passport, as mine was expiring.

They were not exactly inviting me in for coffee and cake, but it was most certainly better than dealing with any DMV in the USA.

17

Oh of course - I was not thinking clearly. For us expats in Indonesia, getting a visa from the Indonesians that allows us to live and work legally in Indonesia is a constant headache. Hence, when I see the word “visa” all I think of is “visas that permit Americans to live in other countries.”

But I left out an important part of the equation, as you point out.

18

The Visa process is a pain in the ass the world over.

About 15 years ago, Spain got a huge spike in illegal immigrants from Latin America, many of whom were easily eligible for work permits, return naturalization (grandchildren of emigrants) and whatnot. A large information campaign managed to get many of them directed to the nearest Spanish embassies and moving through the legal process. According to a newspaper from yesterday I just got hold of (El Periódico, Dec 2 2013) the EU is having a similar problem right now with Syrian refugees who have gone the coyote route, despite many of them having relatives in the EU, being eligible for Visas, etc. But in their case, any information campaigns would have needed to be faster than a bullet… even in cases where the information is easily available online, many people just seem to freeze up when it comes to searching for it.

19

Holy shit that must have been terrifying for everybody concerned!:eek:

20

I live in a private golf enclave in the Dominican Rep. In case you are wondering, not everybody is stinking rich here, most of us are professional middle class people looking for a quiet place to live, most of the foreigners work in the enormous tourist industry just outside.

I am not Danish, my husband and daughter are. We always found the consulate here, when there was one, and then the embassy/consulate in Mexico extremely helpful and accommodating to the point that our other foreign friends sometimes are very surprised by that level of service (like our daughter getting books with her passport) :slight_smile: