A question for the theistic among us: is it possible for God to intervene in the workings of day-to-day life in such a way that it cannot be misconstrued by stubborn atheists like me?
Or, to put it a different way, if God wants me to beleive in Him, why hasen’t He said so? Surely he knows my e-mail adress.
Also, I may as well hand this debate to Godwin by doing so, but I should bring it up. What did Sodom and Gomorrah do, beside spring up in a tectonically unstable area, that made them more eligible for Divine Wrath then Nazi Germany?
I believe it is possible for Him to do anything He wants to.
Dunno, why don’t you ask Him instead of people you think are “misguided, deluded, weak, uneducated, extremists” (take your pick on the one that applies).
If I remember my bible studies correctly, they turned their backs on God. I think the “proverbial straw” was when they decided to oultaw “Under God” in their citizen affirmation ritual. 
Eh, Robert, by your own admission, you’re a lazy, selfish bastard–why would God even want you to believe in Him? 
Much more promising material elsewhere, I’m thinking…Much more worthy of the “voice from out the burning bush” thing, with all that energy expenditure…
heh
Seems clear to me. Since he destroyed S&G instead of Germany, we can only assume God is more worried about people having unsanctioned orgasms than the murder of his chosen people.
Well, I guess all us atheists, me, Ben, Spiritus, Phil, etc., have just not been worthwhile to the Big G. Even though expenditure of energy is hardy an issue for an omnipotent being…
Germany was fairly flattened, and 20+ million Germans dead. Japan was even worse off, with nary a city left standing.
Maybe it was God’s hand that assisted in all that? (I do not think so, in the literal sense, but hey)
Or we could surmise that he allowed this atrocity for some purpose that we are unaware of. For example, WWII ultimately led to the reestablishment of the nation of Israel. Nobody could have predicted that at the time.
I won’t claim to know why Germany wasn’t destroyed, but neither would I jump to the conclusion that you drew. Besides which, Germany WAS pretty well devastated, even though it ultimately survived.
God’s divine wrath apparently overlooked Kyoto, which escaped virtually unscathed throughout WWII. How careless of Him!!
Don’t worry, He hits Kyoto with earthquakes now and then.
People, you got it all wrong!
God doesn’t interfere with wars, massacres, earthquakes, famines, crimes, and abused children. That’s just the way it is, and how dare you question it.
He saves it for more important stuff like helping people understand verses, getting to work on time, helping members recruit people, winning football games…
:rolleyes:
Well, maybe God could have done more to prevent world war two. That’s an issue for another thread. However, I can’t believe you all overlook the time he did get involved and stopped World War’s three and four years before they even started. Think how many lives he saved with that.
What’s that? How do we know he intervened? Well, thing is we don’t. Because he intervened!. I guess what I’m trying to say is that we have no idea how many times God has prevented terrible apocalyptic tragedies because by definition it’d be impossible to give him credit for stopping these events because they didn’t happen in the the first place.
Maybe he’s intervened thousands of times, maybe he’s intervening right now. There’s no way of knowing.
Gomez, all I can say is :rolleyes: . Why do you think he DID intervene? Just because you’d like to think that someone is out there protecting you? You have no proof…only a burning need to attribute all good things to The Big Sky Fairy instead of the intelligent, compassionate people here on Earth who worked hard to avert said disaster…your “Brothers and Sisters”, who are insignificant garbage without the guidance of The Big Guy. Rather anti-social, don’t you think?
Life is hard. Life is scary. Life is also wonderful. It’s what YOU make it…that, and a roll of the dice.
You missed the point. Gomez explicitly said,
and
His choice of words in saying “Because he intervened!” was clearly unfortunate and misleading. However, his point is clearly that if God did intervene, we would be unaware that he did.
I remember after the Oklahoma City bombing, dozens of people who were in the Federal Building but survived the blast said that their Guardian Angel had protected them – knocked an incoming piece of flying debris out of the way, made sure a desk was standing between them and certain doom, etc…
And maybe God prevented World War III, IV, V, and VI in the last half-century in the same way.
But then I ask: Why didn’t just one guardian angel slip into McVeigh’s rented van before the bomb went off, and disconnect the detonating wires? Then no one would have died, and those dozens of guardian angels who would otherwise have had to step in and intervene at the last second would instead have been able to take the morning off and go bowling or something.
And if God did intervene and prevent World War III, why didn’t He intervene and prevent World War I and II? Ten million dead in the first, fifty million dead in the second. And a heck of a lot of those who died in those wars were surely “unsaved” and are now spending an eternity roasting in Satan’s barbecue pit. Is merely preventing total apocalyptic annihilation the best this omnipotent God can do?
I don’t know about that. If one is to position oneself as a Bible-believing Christian, one must acknowledge that it was always patently obvious when God chose to intervene directly in human affairs. You know, what with the striking people dead on the spot after touching the Ark, and the miraculous wiping out of enormous armies, and disembodied fingers writing on walls, and feeding five thousand people with a couple of fish, and whatnot.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the essence of Christianity the belief in itself? Ie, those who choose to believe are the blessed and those who refuse to believe the damned? If the existence of God was supported by irrefutable empirical evidence, it would not require faith to believe and all religions would automatically lose their meaning.
(By the way, I myself am an aetheist.)
Alright, why doesn’t God explain to me why I need to take his existence on faith? No, seriously, why not explain things a little better? A frigging omnipotent entity can’t be troubled to explain to me why he wants me to believe in His existence? Obviously He doesn’t want me to worship Him that badly.
Well, I guess were attributing everything that DIDN’T happen to god now. It’s HIS fault I didn’t win the lotto. It’s his fault the astronauts blew up on the Space Shuttle. (Sigh). Give me something I can WORK with over here!
Well, yes actually. I have a finite amount of money, and I am a selfish bastard. I do not give to the needy. What excuse does God have?
Sometimes Christians say that, but other times they talk of things like the destruction of S&G, which IMO contradicts.