When will people, in general, learn to love?

Great Debates
1

Ok, yeah, I was raised by a hippie. waves (I’m Amee, btw.)

First off, I’m not suggesting that people involved here aren’t loving and accepting enough. I’m making a generalised statement according to what I’ve personally experienced in the world. Not towards any particular race, or gender, or anything like that, but people in general.

It seems crazy to me that there are still arguments, fights, wars, misunderstandings. I know how they happen, yes. I go through them too. They always have some very good reason, even if just imagined.

But it’s still SILLY. Human beings hurt other human beings over petty things that won’t make any difference in so little as a week, month, or year. Couples fight, countries go to war.

So how do we base the claims that we’re “civilised” and “humane?” When are people going to realise that others will get defensive if attacked? When are we ALL going to realise that we really, truly love eachother, and need to work together if this life is going to work out?

2

Please define what you mean by love. What do you think it is to be “civilized” and “humane”.

And be specific. These are important and loaded terms. A real philosopher will treat his words and definitions with the same exactness, specificity, and care as a mathematician. Do not assume that we know what you mean, “Oh everybody knows what love is!”, we do not. Do not assume that you even know exactly what you mean.

3

Well, oki. Sorry for the lack of clarity. Thing is, I’m not a philosopher - I’m just a girl who takes things way too seriously. I WILL be loaded, cos my feelings are very strong. (Added note as afterthought: Thank you, anyway, this will help me to strengthen my discussion skills.)

By love I mean having positive intentions towards others, and being willing to work towards those things in as least a confrontational way as possible.

The “civilised” and “humane” are going to be more difficult, because they’re based on other peoples’ assumptions in the past that I’ve disagreed with. I can put down what I’d assume these are, but I have a feeling they’re different from the terms other people were using.

Civilized, I’d imagine, is being able to offset immediate, instinctual reactions with logic. I am not one of those people, on the other hand, who feels ashamed of the need to check Dictionary.com , so I’ll do that just now:

The thing I see as missing, however, is the “evidence of moral and intellectual advancement.” Some animals have more evidence of these things than others - compare a gorilla with an amoeba, for example. Where is the line drawn between a “civilized” and a “non-civilized” creature, then? And why the never-ending assumption that we are among those Enlightened Beings?

Humane seems to mean avoidance of harm, minimising of pain. Often we SEEM humane up until a war situation comes up, or we find out our partner has been “cheating” on us. Here’s Dictionary.com’s take on it:

So, the PC version of this question would probably be: When will people realise that cooperation, objective communication, and compassion are more effective than intimidation & force? (Do you agree or disagree with above question, and why?)

Better yet, in fact, IF you agree with the above AND believe that it is or will someday be a widespread agreement, When will it actually come into practice?

4

The people are OK. The system we utilize tends to reward aggressively competitive antagonistic behaviors. Informal systems that depend on reputation within the community and a dependency on voluntary and reciprocal helping out of each other don’t.

We need to experiment some more with alternative systems, baby. Politics. Politics and communal living, dig?

5

I am not a philosopher either so my response will only be impressions too. I believe that were things “perfect”, human beings would be able to love and get along with each other just fine. In this imperfect world, however, fear is a prime motivator. Fear of death, injury, suffering, shame, embarassment, loss, losing face, want, need, etc. Fear causes a reaction of defensiveness, attack, isolation, etc. If everything were known or safe, love would flow freely and easily.

And welcome to the boards, amee!

6

:smiley: You’ll fit in just fine.

7

I already think most people realize that cooperation and communication are the best way of getting by in this world. In fact I think humans have generally practiced this for thousands of years even before the first city was built.

Consider for a moment the long list of people you have to communicate and cooperate with in your daily life. I’d be willing to guess that you don’t intimidate or use force against most people you come into contact with. For the most part dealing with others without resorting to intimidation or force is the way to go.

Of course there are times when intidmidation and force is the only effective means to get what you want.

Marc

8

Until you can actually be friends with everybody we cannot have the utopian peace described by some “hippies” as natural. There is nothing less natural than a state of “friendness” in a world of limited resources and stiff competition for them.

9

Hopefully, before the last petal falls from the enchanted rose. Otherwise, we will be cursed to remain a beast forever.

On the up side, it is kinda nice to be waited on by talking teapots and candelabras.

10

When us peaceful, kind people mercilessly butcher our bestial inferiors to create room for a new, kinder society. We would have to have periodic purges to make sure that no hate creeped in, of course.

11

“I know that there are some out there who do not love their fellow man, and I hate people like that!”

– Tom Lehrer, intro to “National Brotherhood Week”

12

It is a mistaken assumption that cooperation, objective communication, and compassion are always more effective than intimidation & force.

Typical example:
I am your boss. Is it more effective for me to have a discussion with you on the merits of every decision I make or is it simpler to operate under the implicit assumption that if you continously question me when I give you a task, I will eventually replace you with someone else?

People are morons. The whole purpose of making money and being successful is to minimize the amount of time you have to spend with those morons. The system is just a reflection of human nature.

Another thing, is it possible for me to love someone and still crush them if they get in my way?

13

Perhaps that time of ‘love’ (although the definition stated, “By love I mean having positive intentions towards others, and being willing to work towards those things in as least a confrontational way as possible,” is rather a kludge) will never happen. However, I do think a lasting cease-fire is probably attainable, if people would stop trying to control other people, and force them to their way of living (even if that is ‘love’). Individual’s and group’s self-interests will always clash with other individuals and groups, and IMO that’s just fine. The problem comes in when one group uses force to change another’s behavior. Now, this isn’t a peacenik anti-war argument or anything, because there is much more to the question. But the basic answer is that people don’t need to know how to love, they just need to know what the limits of their influence should be, and that others should have the same rights of self-determination that they do.

14

I think the problem lies not with failure to communicate, but the ideas that are being communicated; if only everyone else thought like I do there’d be no problem because I alone am objectively right all the time.

15

Hi Amee

I believe the definition of love is giving without any expectation of something in return. It is something you do for yourself. When you show compassion, caring, and help others to achieve their goals you can not but help yourself also. However it is not as prevalent as it should be.

An example would be: on 9/11/01 a small band of people committed a horrendous act of evil. But, immediately, millions of people from all over the world responded with their love. Giving their money, time, property, even their lives, to help strangers. Now that’s Love.

I liked the hippies, thought they had some great ideas.