Ok, maybe I overstated the OP, but after decades of (mostly) wearing jeans and t-shirts and eating out of drive throughs, I need to look like I finally grew up. I need to polish my manners, etiquette and style, and I while I’m still a casual kind of guy, I need to actually think about my image and be able to look good when circumstances require it.
The question is, where to go? Do finishing schools still exist? Should I look for a personal consultant, or is this something that is best handled in a class? This may sound silly to some, but it’s something that I have never had to address before. Subsequently, I haven’t.
My wife recently worked in one university and is about to start law school in another. She tells me that in both, there are classes/workshops (offered in the law school, business college, etc.) in table manners and etiquette and the like, since so many students have never learned about this sort of thing before, and want to avoid embarrassing themselves in professional life.
So the OP is not alone, and may want to call the local college or university. A more direct solution may be to find an acquaintance who seems to know the game already, offer to pay for a few meals and concerts, and watch and learn.
If you want something that is very up-to-the-minute, there is a book coming out in February that has gotten good reviews: Men’s Style: The Thinking Man’s Guide to Dress by Russell Smith
You can also find articles on choosing wines, books on general etiquette including table manners, etc.
And we are great at giving advice here!
Rule One:
Feel free to experiment and explore new facets of yourself. Try things you’ve never tried before. Eventually, you will know what feels right for you.
Rule Two:
The best investment you can make is in your own self-confidence. That is THE most attractive trait in a man. (I’m not talking about cockiness.)
In college they offered “etiquette dinners” which taught you the things your mama should have but evidently forgot. It also had some on business dress, business etiquette, etc.
If you’re concerned about how you dress, fine department stores offer personal service not just to rich people! I don’t know if this is just in big cities, but I know at least in big cities you can call, say, Macy’s, and you say, “Hi, I’m looking to buy an interview suit and I have $200 to spend”, and you go there and they’ve selected some choices for you. These people absolutely know what’s appropriate. Also, alterations are generally free. Most people don’t realize that anybody can take advantage of these services - they’re not just for celebrities and wealthy fur coat buying people.
Alternately, go shopping at a real men’s clothing store. Somewhere downtown, on an actual street, is best, but without that try to at least miss the national chains. There’s a lot of places you can go and say, “I’ve got this job, this is how the people there dress, show me some options.” My dad used to have this guy Keith who knew his measurements, knew everything about him, he’d call my mom around Christmas when they got new stuff in… that kind of service is really invaluable if you’re unsure of yourself and what is most appropriate.
For etiquette and such, also, I believe there do exist classes. Check your local paper - I think I’ve seen something like that in our alternative weekly under “events” or something. If part of what you’re concerned about is public speaking and presenting yourself well in that sort of circumstance, have you considered Toastmasters?
You can also get books and dvd’s on the subject if you’re interested.
One thing you can try is to attend middle of the road affairs where proper etiquette is well received but not blisteringly important. I used to go to see the local symphony all the time and learned by watching others how to dress and how to behave, especially durning the wine and cheese mixer during intermission.
If you have any friends that are well versed, ask them to show you what they know. Go to dinner with them or to a cocktail party and have them assist in proper behavior.
And of course, let’s not forget, you can always ask your fellow dopers for etiquette advice.
What’s prompting the change? New job or career ambitions, new social engagements, marrying up? The kinds of interactions you are thinking of will influence just what you need to know and how you need to dress.
The Chao Goes Mu, the last time I went to the local philharmonic I couldn’t believe how standards for public dress and deportment had plummeted. Don’t necessarily take what those boors are doing for correct.
Finishing schools still exist, and the reason I know this is because I went to one. However, actual Finishing School is probably more than you need.
In any large city you should be able to find classes in deportment either with a group or on your own. For most people a couple of sessions should be enough to get you feeling confident enough for just about any social situation, baring meeting the Queen. And were you to meet the Queen there are a whole separate set of rules that an aide will go over with you beforehand, so don’t worry about that.
I agree with gigi - what sort of instruction you need really depends on what your motivation is.
Finally, confidence is very important part of the impression you make, but the most confident guy around is still gonna look like a boor if he’s talking with his mouth full of food.
why look for formal finishing schools , or etiquette books? The OP needs practical experience for his specific situation. He doesnt say whether he is a computer nerd moving up to a suit-and-tie job,-where he needs to learn formal etiquette- or a garbage man moving up to a simple office job- where he needs to learn not to fart loudly.
Learn what you need through observation of the people who you want to join. Watch their style, and then copy it.Choose public places that have the level of couthness that you want to learn.
Go to a bank–and while you’re standing in line, watch carefully how the tellers dress, and how the managers dress. Go to the theater, or the symphony or the opera. Ignore the performance, and watch the audience. Go to a restaurant (of the appropriate ‘couthness’ level) by yourself, frequently. Watch everybody there carefully.
Really? Great Og! I haven’t been in , oh wow, about 15 years now. It’s amazing how certain standards have taken a dump.
I’m all for personal expression but there are times when, dammit, I want to see some class. My partner and I went out to a really swank restaurant this one night, dressed up in our finest, the whole bit. The staff at the restaurant treated us so well, we had a fabulous dinner, great service, great wine, but the whole time we had to sit near a guy with his girlfriend. The girl looked great, the guy was in a pair of khakis, a polo and a feckin baseball hat. I was not amused.
Last time at the philharmonic there were jeans everywhere. Not some kind of afternoon performance or anything, either. I mean, I don’t demand a jacket and tie unless we’re at a really nice place, but jeans? Not even particularly nice ones, either.
The khakis and polo, whatever, but the hat? Shudder. My mother would not have been amused - wear a hat at her table and she’ll ask you if you’re Jewish? Well, then is it your birthday? Well, then, the hat comes off.
So that’s a sterling piece of advice for the OP - you can be as mannered as you want in every other area, but if you sit at the dinner table with your hat on you’ll always look like an asshole.
I saw a couple of Broadway shows last weekend. Even on Saturday nights, the attire is getting worse by the month. This time I saw cut-offs, t-shirts, dorky baseball caps, hooded sweatshirts, clunky sandals–even a guy with a Big Johnson t-shirt and Levi shorts. It’s always worse among the younger rabble. Somebody really needs to start public floggings.
Class isn’t entirely about how one dresses obviously, but this huddled, wretched, ragtag mass looked like a fashion disaster. That said, it’s trending in this same direction for funerals.
First, I apologize for the late response, and thanks to all of you for the help.
Those of you who asked, I have been coming to this crossroads for a while. I grew up in a working class neighborhood, to parents who knew how to dress up but didn’t often have a need to do so and who never required it of their children. Working as a mechanic and on the night shift in a factory, I never thought that I needed to look good. Also, I’m living in Austin, Tx., where everything is a little more casual than elsewhere.
Also, I’m facing a divorce. One issue (though not the only one) was that my wife is the sort of woman who could start a finishing school, who knows when silverware should be crossed on one’s plate and why her husband, who she dressed in a tuxedo, was the only properly dressed man at a formal wedding (This happened years ago. It was possibly a million dollar affair. Not expecting such extravagance, her husband handled it poorly.)
As part of this, I started ballroom dance classes last month, and I’m hooked. I may never have a chance or the wherewithal to dress to the nines, but I’d like to be ready if the occasion arises and a little style wouldn’t hurt in the meantime.
Zoe, Dressing the Man sounds like a must have. The local bookstores don’t have it, so I’ll probably have to order it online. I’ll also ask around about etiquette classes/dinners, life coaches and/or image consultants.
I’ve been taking ballroom lessons with my boyfriend for six months or so now and I really enjoy it - I don’t think he’s ever going to agree to actually going somewhere to dance, though. At any rate, it’s a great skill to have.
