Oh, I see, thanks.
100% disagree.
All of those people are completely free to choose whatever clothing they like and should take no notice of anyone who complains.
Someone is offended? as Hitchens said “I’m still waiting to hear your point” or, as Stephen Fry said, “so fucking what?”
If you make something that resembles a dish from another culture, and don’t attribute it, you get people complaining you stole it.
If you do the same and you do attribute it, you get the same people complaining your version is not authentic and you have no right to call it that.
If you change 3 ingredients the recipe is yours to do with as you please. Those are the rules.
Hmm. I made my MIL’s pineapple upside-down cake for Rosh Hashanah. I replaced the pineapple with apple. I replaced the brown sugar with honey. I replaced the shortening with butter. I replaced the sour milk with milk plus a shot of lemon juice. And i doubled the amount of the spices (cinnamon and allspice.)
But… It’s still my MIL’s recipe, baked in a cast iron frying pan, just like she made it.
I would think that if you describe it as “-inspired”, that gives you a lot of leeway as far as that goes.
My point was that I’ve seen a lot of things that are clearly empanadas, or clearly some variant on the burrito, and they call them “turnovers” or “wraps”. Or more bizarrely, a Mexican-ish fast food chain local to me has a taco on a “flatbread” that is extremely similar to naan or maybe a really thick fluffy pita. They don’t call it a tortilla, because it’s not one, and they don’t call it either of the others either.
Why not just say “our Mexican spin on a naan-inspired flatbread” or some such?
Whatever you call it or don’t call it, people will cry out in the pain of imaginary injury. It’s unavoidable, because many of the loud voices in this arena are looking for ways to be offended.
I made some flatbreads that I just called ‘flatbreads’ in a video one time. I called them flatbreads because I was not following any recipe or method in particular - I literally just mixed flour and water and kneaded it and rolled it out and cooked it. I had people (apparently) from three different countries telling me that “ummm, actually, that’s called [whatever their local flatbread is called] and u stole the idea u shud give credit”
I’m not saying cultural appropriation doesn’t exist, or that it doesn’t sometimes cause or encourage a harm of some kind, just that the signal to noise ratio is really, really poor, especially on the internet.
Empanadas are unlikely to be a mexican original idea. There are references to “pasties” in Cornwall from the 13th century and from Spain and Portugal from a little later.
A baked or fried sealed pastry with a filling seems to be a worldwide thing, same with flatbreads of different types.
Yeah, I do get that. That’s a nice way to explain one aspect of this issue, thank you. I had to read it three times before I knew what you were talking about though. You’re saying that cultural appropriation depends on the balance of the dominant vs minority culture is in a country/region etc. Did I get that right?
They’re probably not even a singular invention. Putting (more scarce and expensive) tasty stuff inside of (cheaper and more filling dough) is an idea that pretty much invents itself if you have something to make dough out of, and lots of hungry people to feed.
Part of the problem is a quirk of human nature where people assume the first place they saw a thing is where it originated, and anything similar they see elsewhere is a copy.
Well quite. I have no doubt some Italians would be up in arms about Chinese interpretations of spaghetti. (especially Italians, they don’t mess around when it comes to letting you know their feelings on food).
I recall a similar argument on another comment site some years ago. Someone of a Jamaican background was complaining about a spicy variation of a Cornish pasty. They thought it ripped off the Jamaican patty and were furious. They would not accept the fact that the patty was derived directly from the pasty in the first place.
I mean, I get it. You don’t care if you’re making other folks’ lives worse, you’re like, “so fucking what”. You do you. It comes across as a bit antisocial, but spiffy, end of discussion.
With you.
There’s a great scene in Blood Meridian where Comanche men ride past on their warhorses wearing clothes from a bridal party, evidently having attacked and killed a group of White travellers who were carrying the clothes. It’s terrifying and absurd at the same time seeing the warrior wearing a bride’s veil, and another wearing a top hat. It’s not cultural appropriation, it’s evidence of a massacre.
But what if they’d won?
Like, what if the Comanche had retaken the land and founded an empire, and White people in the Americas were mostly relegated to isolated and impoverished villages, where they tried to maintain their culture in the face of Comanche cultural traditions?
And what if Comanche men decided that the bridal dresses of White women were trendy, especially when spattered with blood, and took to wearing them to sports events?
I betcha there’d be some White folks who’d be a little bit annoyed, especially when on their wedding day they looked at the bride in her traditional gown and couldn’t help thinking of where such dresses were mostly seen anymore.
Yep. I get it all the time. “u stole this idea from [someone I’ve never heard of]”
You’re not making other folks’ lives worse by (for example) putting pineapple on your pizza. The majority of cultural appropriation complaint is of that nature.
Has anyone claimed that pineapple on pizza is cultural appropriation?
I’m certain of it, but if you prefer, @Novelty_Bobble 's example of making a spicy Cornish pasty and being accused of appropriating Jamaican patties. I mean, I’ve had people tell me that I “made soup in a racist way”
I mean, the other problem is that when someone posts or tweets “pineapple on pizza is cultural appropriation, be better”, it’s not always easy to tell if they are serious or just shitposting
So long the British Museum* is still chockfull of actual stolen culture we don’t need a word for people imitating other cultures’ hairstyles.
*And many places like that.
I refer to that group as the offendarazzi. Primarily for their only contribution being seeking out things to sensationalize being offended about.
Okay, this I’ve got to hear. Were you wearing blackface? Or a Quipao
I will. Pineapple on pizza is totally cultural appropriation.
The Canadians are just too polite to mention it.