Where has all the understanding gone?

The BBQ Pit
1

When the subscription announcement came out, I wasn’t sure what I was going to do. My initial reaction was to stay and subscribe. I then started to notice a disturbing trend: Dopers who had no patience or understanding with those choosing not join for their own personal reasons. The quality I admire the most in the members here is their ability to respect others beliefs and opinions. For some reason, that tolerance is not being shown by many in regards to this situation.

If another Doper tells me they can’t pay, then I believe them. What motive would they have to lie about such a thing, obviously risking a certain level of embarrasment in reference to their own financial situation? If another Doper wants to say goodbye, I wish them farewell. Why tell them to “quit whinning and just leave”? Many fantastic people will no longer be a part of these boards, and that is a sad situation. What is worse is the manner in which many Dopers are being ridiculed and attacked for their lack of finances, reaction to those who attack them on this issue, and for deciding to leave in general, or posting that they will be leaving. I have lost great respect for several Dopers, including Sailor and Libertarian, for this very sort of behavior. I know they have the right to post their opinions too, but I have been shocked to see the attitude they have taken with fellow Dopers.

A hearty debate on the topic of subscriptions should be encouraged, and both sides should show respect for the other. It is the shameful behavior of certain posters who have acted in this regard that has made me choose to leave the boards. My decision will having nothing to do with money, wanting the Net to be free, or not having a credit card. I’m sure many of you couldn’t care less, and that is fine with me. It is too bad, in my opinion, that tolerance for those in tough financial situations, and those choosing to leave the boards has not been shown by all. Hopefully the future of the Boards will be bright, and future sensitive issues will be handled better by everyone involved.

moejuck

2

Just goes to show that the old forbidden topics of sex, religion and politics are now passe…and if you really dont want to cause an uproar, avoid the topic of money altogether God I love this country ;).

3

No, we can’t all just get along.

4

elucidator; No-one’s asking that. moejuck You are absolutely right, but like ms fermelli says: It’s all about what’s passè and what not. Tolerance is -sadly - passè, apparently.

5

When saying tolerance is passè, are you referring to the boards or the world as a whole? If it’s the former, I will accept that considering my relatively short tenure here but if it’s the latter, I would appreciate a few dozen cites of when it was ever in style if it’s out of fashion now.

6

moejuck, I hear ya. Just giving you a heads up. They’ll probably close your thread down.

I posted Admin’s Attitude Towards People Who Can’t Afford $5 this morning. It was shut down ten minutes later. Czarcasm said I should have posted it in Please place all SDMB subscription complaints in this thread, you cheapskates!.

I did. Unfortunately, it’s been lost in the shuffle. It would have done quite well on its own. The frustrating part is this thread wasn’t about the subsriptions. It was about the Administrator’s attitude towards those who said they can’t pay.

7

The vitriol we are seeing is a crying shame. Think about the motives behind it though. Those of us who are staying want the SDMB to retain as much of its character and charm as is possible. For that we need Moejucks, Buckleberrys and jjimms.

Every time another one fades away we see less hope for the future of our online home. Most people are trying to find a way of convincing the deserters to stay. Many are employing poor tactics in their attempts. I really wish all of you would stay. Even the ones who make me grit my teeth. I just don’t know how to convince you.

Mitch
fruitbat

8

And I noticed Dopers who were misunderstanding and misrepresenting other Dopers while holding out respect as ransom. I never attacked anyone for their lack of finances.

9

And I didn’t say that you did. If you re-read the OP, you will notice that I listed several behaviors that I had a problem with, and that you had been involved in some of them. Funny that you picked just one specifically, don’t you think? Now, I don’t know how to quote very well, but I will try my best. This all comes from the SDMB Complaints thread here
**
Quote:
I can’t find a bank that isn’t out to screw me over.

Have you tried a tinfoil hat?

Libertarian **
AND this smart-ass bullshit…
**
I can use the sponsorship method to sign you up. To pay, you can buy a sandwich for someone who is hungry and cannot afford one.**

AND this really heart-warming post…

You didn’t want charity and I don’t need your money. Someone could have benefited from our action. Why you’re flying off the handle is your business, but I’m not to blame for your big pile of problems

Bolding mine.

You tell me,** Lib**. This is how we should treat people in dire financial straights? I don’t remember you throwing this same sort of charity Polycarp’s way when he had it rough. Does **Zabali_Clawbane ** not have a high enough post count? If you honestly think that you treated her with respect, then I would like you to explain your comments to me.

Also, my respect for you is not being held out as ransom. I have always respected the way you presented yourself here on the boards, and I was suprised to see such comments from you. Because you made such comments, my opinion of you has changed.

10

Since when does paranoia about bank conspiracies equate with poverty? The statement “I can’t find a bank that isn’t out to screw me over” tells me nothing about your wealth. In fact, if anything, it suggests that you’re wealthy. And looney.

And equating my offering to sign her up in exchange for her buying a poor person a sandwich with smart-ass bullshit is absurd beyond belief. And of course, when Tris offered her the identical deal, she thanked him. If that’s how you apportion your respect, then I’m glad to be shed of it.

11

Why? The decision’s been made by the Powers That Be. No amount of debate, hearty or otherwise, is going to change it. Each Doper now must decide on his or her own whether to stay or go. There don’t need to be threads upon threads upon threads about it, and there definitely doesn’t need to be a thread from any individual Doper announcing his or her decision.

12

So you contend that you treated this doper with respect? Can you give a straight answer please? Once again, I have never stated in this thread that you attacked her financial status, so I would be pleased if you would quit making that assertion. You were, in my opinion, very short with this specific poster, and you definitely came off as an arrogant jerk.

13

What is wrong with a poster detailing thier reasons for leaving, or simply saying goodbye? Some of the posters who will not be subscribing have been here a very long time, invested much time in the boards, and I am sure many would be glad to have a chance to wish them farewell.

Whether or not the decision has been made has nothing to do with the fact that a debate about the wisdom of the decision should take place. If my employer decided to require mandatory overtime, I couldn’t change that fact. I could choose to leave or not, and I would definitely engage in a debate with the other employees about the wisdom of such a decision.

14

I think being disappointed with a poster or irritated by someone is the nature of any interaction with other people. While I have my favorite posters, it’s not often been them I’ve had my most lively discussions with. It’s nice to relate to something that EatsCrayons posts, but I also like reading what Yosemitebabe posts, even if I disagree with her a lot of the time. I have a lot in common with her as well, and like a lot of things about her, while at the same time, often disagree with her. I’d be just as sorry to see someone like her go, as I would people I agree with most of the time.

For all the posters you may find unfeeling and rude, there’s someone like EddyTeddyFreddy. She is the poster through whom I am going to be able to remain here. I’ll be able to pay with a money order, and it appears I’m not the only one she’s helping. If rudeness is your reason for leaving (and I’m willing to admit I’ve been rude myself on occasion), I don’t see it as a very realistic expectation to have in the first place. Not a justification for rudeness, mine or others’, but you might want to give it a second look.

15

You make a fine point chichlidiot. I know that the majority of the dopers are fine and upstanding people. I don’t think Lib. is a bad person either! I am simply suprised at what seems to be some sort of ill will towards people who are choosing not to subscribe. I just don’t see a point in berating someone because they choose to leave, and post that they intend to do so.

jjimm can start a goodbye thread, and everyone thinks it’s great. Why? He has a huge post count. I understand that he is very recognizable, but it gives the impression that posters who have been around for a couple years or less really don’t matter.

I know people here are going to be rude, I expect that in certain forums or threads. What I have a hard time with is the attitude of many dopers who say “just get the hell out now”. They would never say that to certain posters specifically, but to yell it out generally is just fine. I took offense to that, even though I was planning on staying at first.

Again, I will say that if someone wants to leave we should all simply wish them well. I don’t see a point in putting someone down no matter what their reasons are. Maybe I am just too nice.

16

Some Dopers, as with many topics, are expressing disagreement with the opinions posted, for various reasons. Some are doing so with more decorum than others. I have noticed a lot of whining and melodrama from people unwilling to pay also. This irritates me more, to be frank.

I never thought I would be willing to pay for SDMB if it went to subscription, but $5 / year is a ridiculously low price. I don’t understand the drama about it. I can’t think of anything that gives a comparable level of entertainment for that little.

Yes, I’m sure that there are Dopers that can’t afford it.
Yes, I’m sure that there are Dopers without a credit card or checking account.
Yes, I’m sure that there are Dopers that want the 'net to be free.

I just think those are silly reasons to be so combatative.

In terms of cost, $5 a year is pitifully low. If you can afford internet access and the time to browse the Internet, I fail to see how you couldn’t afford this if you love the SDMB so much that you’re willing to create such a stir about the cost. I know some Dopers who plan to pay have been very blunt about their opinions (if you can’t – not won’t or would prefer not, but cannot – pay $5 a year, then perhaps you should do something about your financial problems) and, to a degree, I sympathize. I don’t think that people who are poor are bad, or lazy, or whatever. I just don’t think they should expect a free ride. There are a multitude of Dopers in ATMB offering gift subscriptions as a kindness, but still there is whining.

Regarding wanting the 'net to be free: if you believe that, then I’m sorry to be rude, but the 'net is not free. This message board has a cost for the bandwidth, servers, and software. It’s just a matter of who pays. I’d love for movies and cable TV to be free, but they aren’t and so I can either pay or not use those services. Free sites are either supported by advertising (a very difficult route – internet advertising is notoriously ineffective), commercial sales of products/services through the site, or folks putting up a page out of their own pocket for jollies. Personally, I’d rather pay my 40 cents a month than have flashing banners and constant barrages asking for donations or buying T-shirts.

I do hope that more payment options are provided (mailing money orders/checks, gift subscriptions, etc.). However, most of the arguments seem to fall into the poorness/‘it should be free on principle’ and I just can’t see those as fair criticisms.

17

I have no idea what the OP is talking about.

18

While I’m sure a lot of people would disagree with you about the post count, I don’t. I’ve seen generally disliked posters with high post counts as well, but a high post count never seems to hurt around here. I think it’s the same at pretty much any message board though. jjiimm is a poster I happen to like quite a bit, and maybe I wouldn’t like him nearly as much, if I hadn’t read so many of his posts. It’s hard for me to expect a lot of Dopers to feel one way or the other about me, given my post count, and so I just let it slide right off my back.

I’ve even posted things in threads that were ignored, and then a poster or two with a higher post count came in, and stated the same thing, and had it acknowledged. It hurt my feelings a bit, but I didn’t take it as intentional, and I’ve seen it happen on a regular basis to other posters, too. On one occasion, I posted something, and the very next poster said something to the effect of, "I can’t believe _____ hasn’t been mentioned, " where ______ was exactly what I had posted. The time difference between the two posts was too great to be a simulpost. It happens, and said poster (I can’t even remember who it was) did not mean it maliciously, as far as I can see. Probably didn’t read the thread thoroughly. So in short, yeah, sometimes low post counts get short shrift, but having acknowledged that, it’s something I can live with.

I still get what you are saying about the rudeness, but even higher post count people get rudeness in response, at times. I think the difference is, more people “know” that poster, so the likelihood of another poster stepping in to defend is greater. It might not be fair, but them’s the breaks. YMMV

19

Read this thread, and I think you will see the type of attitude I am referring to Miller.

20

On Libertarian’s tone lately:

I think Lib could have phrased his posts in certain recent threads a lot better, with more regard to how they’d come across, especially to folks who are feeling mighty upset right now. I also think the fact that he’s currently undergoing testing for multiple sclerosis, and feeling hellishly sick, might have something to do currently with his tin ear for the tone of his posts.

Yes, I know Lib has said snarky things and riled people before. Yes, I know about the door-slamming departure to Fathom (followed by the self-abasing apologetic return). Yes, Lib does tend to shoot first and realize he’s hit his foot later. He’s nevertheless one of the Dopers I find fascinating to read (except when he indulges in those damned logical equations :wink: ). No, I don’t see Lib as using his illness to excuse bad behavior – as far as I’m aware, he mentioned it in just one thread. I do believe we should keep that in mind when reading his posts. (As we should keep in mind that we don’t know what kind of crap ANY Doper might happen to be going through at any given moment.)

There’s a lot of angst all over this board right now. There’s a lot of people (me included) saying stuff that, in a cooler moment, we’d rather have left unsaid. Methinks we ALL need to cut each other more slack than usual while this upheaval gets sorted out.

And Lib: while you do piss me off at times, I like you, and wish you well, both in health and in continued Dopedom. So take that into account, please, when I say it would be a good idea if you could run your posts through a “What’s the worst construction someone could give this?” filter, at least when emotions are rampaging as they are now. Peace?