How are other major countries (I know where India and Pakistan stand) such as China, North Korea, etc dealing with the threat of war?
This could get real scary real fast if they decide to back the other side. . .
It wouldn’t surprise me if they gave covert aid to the the “other side”, however i think it’ll be a cold day in you know where before any country comes out and officially declares their support of terroism.
Last I heard was that China would support a US military action against Osama bin Laden (and presumably Afghanistan) if the US could provide compelling evidence to China that Osama bin Laden is indeed responsible.
What China will consider compelling evidence I couldn’t say. They may try and be jerks and deny all but a ‘smoking gun’ videotape of bin Laden orchestrating the attacks or they may accept a mountain of circumstantial evidence that the US is currently compiling.
My best guess is they’ll be a tougher sell on proof than NATO allies but they’ll probably go the way the wind is blowing if they don’t have a compelling counterargument denying bin Laden’s involvement.
Frankly China probably views this as an opportunity to gather the Middle East closer to its sphere of influence. I bet they’re privately thrilled at the whole thing.
Oh you bet, anything to keep our attention off our internet security. Nimda virus was courtesy of the Chinese… I predict they’ll back us publically and continue to attack us technilogically… or they’ll back us publically, while supporting the “bad guys” under the table…who knows if the Code Red and it’s oversized new sibling aren’t part of the entire mess in the first place. That, of course, is a wild shot in the dark and an opinion, just to clarify.
Meg
I should have provided a cite for that:
http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2001sep/gee20010918007919.htm
http://www.europe.f-secure.com/news/2001/news_2001091900.shtml
Unless of course, someone’s used China as a sheild/scapegoat.
Or, “R.P. China” stands for something else (um).
Meg
China has its own issue with islamists in the west of the country, and has no interest altogether in supporting a fundamentalists nest just right across its boundary.
That’s hilarious. I can’t wait to see “John Q. Hacker vs. The People’s Republic of China” in court arguing over a copyright violation.
On a more serious note, releasing viruses into a public network is not much different from terrorism. In fact, many have used the phrase “cyber-terrorist” before. Any government that claims responsibility for introducing the Nimda worm into the global network is essentially endorsing a form of terrorism.
China has been waging it’s own war against muslim fundamentalists for years. There have been terrorist bombs exploded in Beijing and elsewhere linked to muslim extremists. Xinjiang Province is about 40% ethnic muslims. There have been small scale uprisings against Han Chinese rule numerous times over the past 50 odd years.
In June 2001, there was the latest Shanghai Cooperation Organization, the presidents of the so-called “Shanghai Five” – China, Russia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, and Tajikistan – added a new member, Uzbekistan, and signed an agreement on fighting terrorism and extremism. The SCO has as it’s aim stability in Central Asia, and the biggest threat at this time is Afganistan.
Both China and the region have been aware of this threat and have already been active in countering the threat. It is very likely that China would not oppose some sort of US action. China is also quite skilled at gaining concessions, and would likely use this opportunity to advance their agenda. What that might be vis-a-vis Taiwan, Spratleys, restricted technology, investment in oil pipelines, etc etc is open to speculation.
do a google search on the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. here are some links:
http://www.janes.com/security/regional_security/news/jid/jid000613_1_n.shtml
http://www.irn.org/programs/threeg/991018.taliban.html
http://www.ksg.harvard.edu/news/opeds/feigenbaum_china.htm
http://www.ndcf.org/Conflict_List/World_Conflict_Count98.html
Some people who work for the news organizations in the UK said that they think China bought secrets from the US & sold them to the Saudis for the attack. Why China would want to do that is beyond me.
And the United States is what, 84% ethnic Christians? Or should I say 56% ethnic Protestants and 28% ethnic Catholics?
Just like many of the other posts, not an answer here, but:
1)i) China does not call themselves R.P. China, but PRC for The People’s Republic of China. ii) Republic is two words.
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No government is dumb enough to spend money on a cyber-terrorism campaign to create a virus AND both claim responsibility and “copyright” it. Surely however, people are dumb enough to believe otherwise, which is why that line is contained.
Do you have any basis for your speculation?
- China has already planned to give support to the US.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_1541000/1541656.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/asia-pacific/newsid_1556000/1556032.stm
5) Handy: Who are “some people,” “news orginaziations in the UK,” and does speculation = proof? Why China would do that, indeed.
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China has also been affected by terrorism, or more specifically, by Muslim separatists.
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Psychonaut: How is that relevant? Are Christians trying to separate from the US? No, they are not. However, the Muslim separatists are.
http://www.asiamedia.ucla.edu/Special/ReactionToAttack/SCMP11.htm:
I wasn’t aware one had to be a separatist before being labelled as “ethnic”. Are the members of the Republic of Texas “ethnic Texans”? Were the papal emissaries who negotiated the Vatican’s independence from Italy in 1929 “ethnic Catholics”?
What I was saying, and believe was meant by “ethnic muslim” is their set of beliefs that go further than, but basically caused by, their Islamic faith – which is to separate from China. Now, a redundancy in the context of the message? Perhaps. Relevant? No.
For some unknown reason, there seem to be a relationship between ethnicity and religion.
Some people also believe in the Easter Bunny.
I have seen a lot of posts and media speculation that China would be opposed to military action against OBL or the Taliban for a lot of frivolous reasons. As I posted earlier, China, Russia and the former Soviet “Stans” have been cooperating for years against Afganistan and the exportation of militant muslim ideology into their own countries. China has been the victim of terrorist attacks within their own country by militant muslim seperatists. (I am simplifying the cause of Xinjiang seperatists here – that would require another thread.)
China’s relations with the US has improved dramatically in the last 10 years. Not withstanding the Hainan airplane incident or bombing of the Belgrade embassy, Colin Powell has recently visited, APEC was held in June in Shanghai, APEC II for the leaders (Bush is scheduled to attend) is coming up in les than a month, China is officially entering WTO, etc.
One can idly speculate and make up rumors like OBL being granted asylum in China to piss off the world, but the fact is that China has every reason to reduce the Islamic militant/extremist threat posed on it’s Western border and improve ties with not only the US but also Pakistan, Russia, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan and the trading partners throughout the globe. The Chinese may have their own agenda that is hard for some outsiders to understand, but stupid they are not.
Could it be that they share similar customs,language, and (generally) appearence?
This is looking more and more like a Great Debate, so I’ll move it.
bibliophage
moderator GQ
Um, no. One article you cite is about how China wants to be consulted, the other refers to “cautious support,” but that the US should NOT do anything militarily unless its through the UN. Except for a handful of countries, everyone is saying “we support the US.” So what?
Is China going to send troops? No.
Is China going to send money or equipment? No.
Is China going to allow use of their airspace? No.
So exactly what does this “support” amount to? It amounts to their agreeing to do nothing. Which is, I’ll grant, something.
First, China is already waging its own war against terrorism, or more specifically, against the Muslims in their western provinces, which at the very least diverts attention. Second, it’s too early to tell what kind of support they are offering, whether if it’s just words, airspace, or whatnot. Third, political support is something, which was in response to the OP’s unjustified fear that China might take the Taliban side. Last, you have a cite for any of that? “Is going to” is far different from “has already agreed to,” and unless you asked Miss Cleo already I don’t see how you can possibly predict the future.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by furt *
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I haven’t seen anything official regarding the first three questions, so if you have a cite I’d like to see it.
The answer to your last question depends in great part as to how the US builds support, whether there is UN support (remember China sits on the security council), and how the US deals one-on-one with China. China is not going to give the US a blank check, nor are most countries that want to remove bin Laden as a threat.
This is a great opportunity to improve Sino-US relations, and it will require finess and diplomatic skill by both parties.