About the anxiety/depression issues: My relationship isn’t a crutch, because I’ve been this way since I was 13. WAY before I met Joe. I did say, however, that my issues have lessened and become less frequent since we’ve been together. That started even before we did much D/s at all. It’s my (possibly skewed) thinking that being with someone who makes me so happy has led to my better mental/emotional state, more than the whole Dominant/submissive dynamic. D/s has helped some too, but not as much as the “big picture.”
As for the kids, I didn’t intend for my thread to be about them, so I’m bowing out of that part of the discussion. Call it cowardly, or a cop-out, I’m sorry but they’re my kids and it’s not really relevant to what I was trying to say in the first place.
Are you two both white? I’m just wondering because if you were black and he was white, can you imagine how we’d REALLY flip out?
I just don’t quite get what you’re growing towards. Most of us are trying to be ourselves, meet our responsibilities, discover our potential and avoid pain. You’re heading the opposite direction. What will you have achieved once you get “there”?
I know I’m late to the party and all, but there doesn’t seem to be anything wrong at all with what freekalette and Mr. are into. They don’t deal the dirty in front of the chillens, and it seems there’s no disrespect shown in front of impressionable young minds.
The idea of a relationship like this one is as fascinating to some as it might be repugnant to others, but the fact of the matter is that the ancient idea of “marriage” was, if the impression I get from “the book” is correct, designed to be like this exact situation, with or without the willing participation of the female. It seems to me that if freekalette is happy in her role, that happiness will translate to those in her care, and they in turn will be happy.
We’re both white, although it wouldn’t matter to me one bit if one/both of us weren’t.
I’m still myself, still meeting responsibilities, and avoiding pain as much as possible. My potential is in a rut at the moment, but it’ll right itself soon enough. I don’t see myself as heading the opposite direction. It may not be the same direction many of you are choosing, but that doesn’t mean our paths won’t lead each of us to be functioning and productive people.
What will I have achieved at the end of my journey? Many memories, most of them happy ones. Stronger character and sense of self. Appreciation for subtleties and nuances. Definitely a higher sense of self-worth. Perhaps a bit of an ego.
As I’ve said before, I’m not a member or an aspirant to the D/s scene, but I do know people who are, and almost every sub has mentioned how much they’ve grown and learned under the tutelage of their Dom. I’ve had two different LiveJournal friends make posts about it in the last week, actually.
I personally don’t see what it is that they’re learning, but it’s obvious to me that they are learning and growing in some way inside the D/s lifestyle. I think that’s one reason I get so defensive for them when people dismiss the whole thing as just a power-trip fantasy. This is a serious lifestyle for them. I felt extremely awkward when I attended Mid-Atlantic Leather a few years ago, because I don’t “get” the leather thing/ D/s thing at all, on an actual feeling level. I felt like I was a tourist barging into a religious ritual. I’m actually glad I didn’t bring supervenusfreak’s leather vest to try to “fit in”. It would have felt like a costume.
I didn’t tsk-finger you (I like that phrase, though)–I used your post to point out to the shrill voices of the D/s advocates that even their community JUDGES others–including some of their own. I wasn’t even trying to tsk-tsk you.
Your post #252 (I didn’t quote here because the burden of it is down below) and then my reply: (I don’t know how to nest posts, so this is as good as I can get it). Hope this helps.
How does that make it not a crutch? In fact, if anything, that is a pretty good indication that your relationship with Joe IS a crutch - since your issues have gotten better around him. Perhaps the d/s thing is incidental to Joe himself being a crutch.
Imagine for a minute that the conversation was about alcohol use. Alcohol use in moderation is fine. Most of us think its fine around children in moderation. But if someone came in here and said “Ever since I started drinking every day, my depression and anxiety has gotten better” - even without children in the house - many of us would say “wow! red flag!” Or if you were talking about gambling. Or shopping. What I’m hearing you say is that “my depression and anxiety started to get better when I met Joe, and once I turned my entire life over to Joe, well, now I’m happy.” That is really scary to me for the sake of your own mental stability - but I don’t know you. I do hope that you have a good doctor and a good therapist you can trust with these issues and these life choices who DOES know you because it sounds like you’ve had a life that hasn’t been exactly the primrose path - and depression and anxiety are lifelong conditions that need to be managed for most sufferers - and since yours have been around since 13, I’m guessing that will be the case for you.
I just don’t get this concept that there’s a ‘right’ way to deal with one’s personal issues, and strangers have a right to call a person out on it.
I mean, let’s assume (and I’d probably agree) that this relationship dynamic is fulfilling some emotional/psychological needs in a sub-optimal manner. I ask you how often does that happen, regardless of the particulars? My guess is pretty damned often. I can think of dozens of friends and acquaintances who are in relationships with strange or unhealthy (in my mind) dynamics that are totally vanilla in all aspects. And, I would never call them out on it. Glass houses and all that.
Now, I’m not a doctor, so I can’t argue anything about whether or not the OP is manic or not. Let’s assume she is not. Let’s assume she has many large anxiety issues. If she’s found a relationship that lets her work around or avoid those issues and be a happy person, than good for her. I don’t think she owes it to anyone to ‘fix’ herself. Sometimes the best way to go on being a happy person in the face of an issue like anxiety is to change one’s environment. Nothing wrong with that.
I said you were acting like I came in here tsk-fingering people for not being completely accepting. The single line of mine, as you quoted it, was a factual response to a factual question someone else asked. You still have to demonstrate where in this thread I’ve earned your attacks on me. I have never once in this thread said that everyone needs to be universally accepting or condemned anyone for failing to be universally accepting of every form of D/s (or any form). You need to apologize for completely misrepresenting my posts and position or you need to prove that I’ve done anything at all to deserve your ranting at me. You just saw that I was in this thread, decided I must be doing a certain thing and started screeching at me about it. Back it up (you can’t) or apologize (you probably won’t).
Actually, Freek, now that you’ve explained things a bit better, I don’t think it’s nearly as bad as I originally thought. I still think it’s kinda, well, weird, but not quite as disturbing.
These aren’t personal issues - these are mental health issues. And there are healthy and less healthy ways to deal with your mental health. That’s simply a fact. And I’ve said I don’t know if this is healthy, but I would hope given her mental health history and the nature of this relationship that she works with someone who can evaluate whether it is healthy.
As for having a “right” to “call her on it” - I’m expressing concern, I don’t think I’m “calling her on it.” But even if I was calling her on it, anyone here has as much “right” to do that as she has to share the interior workings of her life with us. Once you do that on a public message board, you get responses. Don’t want responses, this isn’t the format to share.
Ok, I guess I don’t dispute you there. I just know so many people who are ‘broken’ in one way or another who deal with it in various ways, some of whom may or may not be diagnosable, that I have a hard time getting behind some of the “OMG, she’s doing it all wrong” sentiment, when she seems to be happy (not ascribing that sentiment to you).
And maybe ‘right’ was not the right word, and maybe I should know better what with this being a message board and knowing how things generally go down, but sometimes the vehemence that some people use to criticize others in this community takes me a little by surprise.
Isn’t it more important to teach those kids that every human, male or female, has the liberty to establish and participate in whatever sort of consensual relationship leads to their happiness? Why should she be any more obligated to adhere to your stricture that partners always be seen as equal than she was to adhere to your forefathers’ insistence that women should always be seen submitting to men? Liberation is about liberty, not about moving from one mandated mode of interaction to another.
Replace the “ask the wife who’s a 24/7 sex slave” thread with an “ask the wife who’s in a 24/7 normal sexual relationship” thread. Do you still object if the children are incidentally exposed to evidence of their parents’ sexual relationship? I submit that if the differential is the kind of sex that’s taking place, the issue is mostly about the sex.
Sometimes what people choose to share takes me by surprise, and then I am further surprised when they are completely taken aback by the reaction. For a board that can start a flame fest over “I got a new couch and now need to declaw my cat” or “I’m having a party, is it ok to have people take their shoes off at the door” it doesn’t shock me that “hey, I need to share my dom/sub 24x7 relationship with children in the home with you all” would maybe disturb the still waters that are the SDMB.
That’s not what they’re teaching. They’re modelling subjugation of women as normal and healthy. It’s neither. It’s fucked up, those people have issues and the children should not be taught tha it’s a happy, normal choice.
What a festering pile of horseshit.
I don’t know what a “normal sexual relationship” is, but my problem isn’t the sex, it’s the guy treating their mother like shit in front of her children. For god’s sake, she wears dog collars and kneels at his goddamn feet. That’s not affection and it shows an incredible disregard for the feelings of th children. They need to keep their games in the bedroom. Better yet, they should get some fucking counselling.
