But they ARE teaching them that just by doing it. What is modelled makes a much greater impression than what is said. Ask any parent.
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Ok, I just finished a class on relationships, and I just wanted to say that even thought most people (not all, 75%ish? can’t remember) say that relationships should be exactly equal, far fewer than that claim that their marriages are exactly equal. So, I think it’s a bit harsh to say that not being completely equal is horrible and damaging and abusive. Different couples have different things that work for them and their needs and situation.
Sorry, I wish I could cite, but I sold my book back the other day. 
Dio I have an honest question for you. I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and pretend that my kids are all grown up and were, in fact, affected deeply by my marriage. All three of them are now in D/s relationships. Where does the problem lie? What’s inherently wrong with them growing up to be just like me? (Or on the opposite end, as dominants?) Am I missing some huge glaring point here?
The problem, freekalette, is that they’d be degenerates like you, terrorizing innocent Internet message boards and destroying our way of life.
Bah!! Pop in the keyboard! ::EMERGENCY!! EMERGENCY!!::
Damn, that was awesome. Thanks, I needed that very much today. 
IMHO, it’s the difference between behavior motivated by love/trust/choice and behavior done out of/intended to cause fear. Your dominant/subdominant relationship is the former, but from the outside, it mimics relationships based on suppression, control and fear and the (well, my) concern is that your kids won’t pick up on the “only playing!” aspect that separates your relationship from an abusive one and will grow up to mimic/seek out what they perceive your relationship to be like. You have since fleshed out your description of your relationship to a point where, taking you at your word*, I feel that that concern is probably misplaced, especially given the fact that you communicate with your kids on the subject. YMMV, of course.
*Not that I think you’re a liar, but anyone would want to believe that what makes them happy doesn’t damage their kids, and untreated mental illness can skew one’s perspective. I don’t feel I know enough about you, your relationship, your kids and psychology to state anything conclusively.
I never said I thought they’d end up in dom/sub relationships, nor do I care. My concern is that they’re seeing their mother disrespected and ordered around like a dog. I think that would have to make them feel bad. You don’t seem to give a shit how they feel and keep focusing on how they’ll behave as adults, which is not the issue.
ETA, how would you feel if your kids ended up in genuinely abusive relationships, either as abusers or as victims because that’s what they think is “normal?”
Okay, fine. I apologize for mistaking what you meant.
I do give a shit how my kids feel, which is why things are super toned-down around them. “Disrespected and ordered around like a dog”? Hardly.
Spot on.
Yup, you’re right. It’s definitely the woman-being-submissive thing that’s bothering me, possibly because I am a woman. I’m seeing a mentally ill woman who has taken refuge from her mental problems in an unhealthy relationship. (For the record, I describe Freakalette as mentally ill not because she participates in a D/s relationship, but because she mentions her mental troubles a few times: depression, anxiety, and self-described “manic” states.)
I call it unhealthy because of two things:
1.) she says herself that she is forced to do things she does not want to do - sex, tickling, wearing collar in public, etc. Each of these are debatable - maybe the tickling is ok, depending on the situation, etc., but taken together these things add up.
2.) She has been really back and forth in her description of this relationship. First she described nonconsensual sex, then she described it as grudgingly consensual. First she describes herself as a slave and a bitch, then she takes it back, saying that she does get to make decisions (she just likes to decide that he’s The Boss). First she describes Joe as a sadist (while she is not a masochist), then she describes him as a loving husband who “spoils” her by “letting” her sleep in and “letting” her go out to lunch.
So what I’m trying to say is not that any BDSM relationship is unhealthy, but that this one troubles me. And the troubling part for me is not the kids, although I could see why that would trouble other people, but the woman submitting in the relationship. So yeah, maybe part of my reaction may be fear for myself, because the thought of some man dominating me is scary, but I think my reaction is also founded on valid, logical reasons.
The pool of potential mates for them will be considerably smaller, for one thing.
Also, consider the fact that the reason you are happy in your relationship is that you dislike making decisions. Your kids might not inherit that from you. They might like to make decisions. Unfortunately, if they’re girls, they’re going to think that they just have to deal with it because they learned by watching your example women don’t make the decisions in relationships. I’m not saying this will definitely happen, but it’s something to look out for…I know you’ve talked to your kids about it too and told them that there are all kinds of different relationships and none of them is inherently right or wrong.
But “do as I say, not as I do,” doesn’t always work. My dad smoked cigarettes. He told me to never start smoking because it would destroy my health. But my dad never had lung cancer, or a loss in physical stamina, or even a cough or a raspy voice, and as soon as I hit high school I took up smoking. I got a smokers’ cough and lost the ability to walk up the stairs without getting short of breath. The point is that smoking was something my dad could do and I couldn’t. He knew this, so he told me not to do it. I agreed not to and it probably seemed for all the world that I understood him and heard him. But you just can’t trust feedback from kids, not about things like that. What you say might go in one ear and out the other, even if it seems like they’re listening and getting it, and then they’re going to go back to what they see you do on a day-today basis their whole lives.
I actually know a couple like freekalette and Joe. They’re my aunt and uncle. They have three kids. With respect to their relationships only, I’d say one is fucked up, one is fine, and one is up for debate.
But the reason my aunt, and maybe the reason you, freekalette, love your relationships is because you have anxiety. Anxiety makes decision-making a stressful process. A solution is to find someone who can take that burden away from you. There is nothing wrong with that.
But, while your kids may or may not inherit your anxiety, they have no choice but to see your example of a happy relationship. Your (hypothetical) daughter (hypothetically) might not understand why she isn’t happy in the kind of relationship you have modeled for her. Most likely, she will understand that she isn’t you…but it could take a while.
I’d be curious to know whether you’d react in the same way if exactly the same thing had been posted, but by a woman who doesn’t have the issues (depression, anxiety) ** freekalette ** has.
I hate to jump in at the middle (end?) of a long argument, but maybe I can make this clear.
I’ve had sex when I was not in the mood. I’m sure that girlfriends I’ve had have had sex with me when they were not in the mood. It’s a thing that people do sometimes because making their SO feel good about him/herself is more important in that moment than their own lack of horniness.
freekalette’s agreement with her spouse seems to be that she’s made the choice to say yes to sex in those situations when a person might say yes or no depending, not that her husband is going to physically force her to have sex while she tries to keep her legs together.
I admit that the line gets a little fuzzy, but the important thing to remember (I think, having absolutely no experience with this sort of relationship) is that it’s based on agreement and consent from the get-go. Because the sub is never actually forced to do anything. He/she has chosen to pretend like he/she has no choice in the moment because it feels good to do so, but the sub has complete choice.
I’m not trying to make an argument for or against a particular lifestyle choice, but reading rape into the OP is just a wrong reading. There’s nothing there textually or contextually that indicates rape, because as the OP clearly states, she wants to have sex with her husband when she is not in the mood.
Dio I’m a parent, and I don’t have a problem with their relationship. I don’t think it’s damaging the children. I’m not in a D/s or SM or TPE or any other acronymic relationship myself, but you were asking repeatedly for another parent to answer, so there’s mine.
I think you’re misunderstanding the 24/7 aspect of their play and how it impacts the kids actual lives. The dog collar and punishments and grudgingly consented to sex are all taking place out of the kids’ sight. She’s already said they only have “play time” when the kids are at her mother’s house for the weekend or overnight, the 24/7 aspect is how she and her husband feel emotionally about their relationship, that’s all. It’s about how they view one another and their roles in the marriage, not about being mean or acting out all the time.
Growing up, I had a SAHM and my parents relationship seemed pretty equal to me. They discussed things, made decisions together, but there were distinct roles they each played and that was just okay, it was them taking or not taking responsibility in each area as they’d deemed fitting. Dad wasn’t being domineering if he said “Get me a drink, babe” even though Mom was supervising homework and folding laundry at the same time, he just figured she was closer to the kitchen, she just figured it was her role to do the little things like that since she’d chosen to do so.
I remember having a great many discussions about their behavior as I grew up and became more aware of how things worked and neither of them ever had as clear-cut of an explanation of why things worked for them this way as Freek and her husband have ready. They’d muddle thru and of course eventually I understood, but there was a lot of confusion and manufactured outrage on Mom’s behalf until I got more mature and could figure out things on my own, since they seemed incapable of fathoming the subtleties I was questioning.
So while it took me years to realize that my parents respected each other, since they weren’t very verbal about it, I didn’t grow up to seek out a partner to debase me. I grew up just fine and feel incredibly blessed to have a partner who adores and respects me. Their kids are getting the info I was seeking much clearer and much earlier, I can only think it’s going to be that much easier for them than I had it growing up. And that the kids are going to be Just Fine, since how Mommy and Daddy feel about getting that drink of water or asking for it is Way over the kids’ heads anyway, and all the really good stuff is out of their sight.
Oooh, a Steelers fan AND Insane Clown Posse?
Ouch, that’s more of a strike against you than anything else you’ve posted!
There is in that it isn’t a healthy way to cope with anxiety - it abdicates the responsibility onto another person and strengthens dependancies. It doesn’t create a situation for long term mental stability.
This was basically what I came to say. The problem I see is that she is saying that she’s got issues with making decisions, and rather than learn how to deal with the anxieties, she runs away by finding someone who will make all the decisions. I don’t see this as a healthy solution.
What message does this bring to the children? If she doesn’t learn to make decisions on her own, then the children can’t help but notice. What message does that send to them?
This is my only concern about the relationship, too - using it as a crutch instead of working out the issues that are causing the anxiety and depression. Of course, most people with anxiety use medication as a crutch rather than working out their issues, so maybe I won’t criticize freekalette too loudly.