I know you’re kidding around, but isn’t it worth considering what the other parent of the children might think of this arrangement, assuming he’s in the picture? What if he got a garbled version of it from the kids? Or freekalette told him and he felt as Diogenes does? Would you be able to dismiss his concerns as emanating from a close-minded vanilla person who just doesn’t get it? Which he may be, but he’s one whose kids are involved in a situation that many people would find questionable at best. At worst? Grounds for full custody being given to the father.
Thank you! And am I wrong, or has it been getting so much worse these past few years? Maybe I’m misremembering, but he used to be a lot more fun. Lately, he’s just angry most of the time.
Anyway, I feel quite comforted to be on the opposite side of this issue as two of the board’s three most judgemental, closed-minded posters (Diogenes and Shodan – I guess Der Trihs is too busy judging people in real life this week).
I find it hard to believe that the people objecting most strenuously bothered to pay attention as they read the thread. What are the kids actually being exposed to? Daddy makes the household decisions and doesn’t say “please,” and one time Mommy wore some funny jewelry to a restaurant. And Mom and Dad have explained that in some relationships Dad is in charge, in some Mom is in charge, and in some both parents are equally in charge. What am I missing? It’s not what I would choose, but we’ve no reason to believe that this can’t be a healthy environment for kids given two loving and conscientious kinksters.
Actually, it is. Do you seriously believe that if she thought she couldn’t leave the relationship, she’d be making a public post detailing her relationship? Some people enact cries for help, but they’re often very subtle and in ways that the abuser won’t find out about. Fear of retribution is the primary reason an abused spouse feels they can’t leave, and cutting off outside communication is usually the first thing abusers do.
I’m not going to waste my time arguing against people who just get all uppity about a definition of love that involves enduring discomfort on the whim of a loved one. No matter what I say, more dumb comparisons to abuse will be forthcoming, more self-righteous bullshit will be flung, no one will have learned anything, and no one will be changing their behavior. (And I’ll still enjoy being tickled, even tho I hate being tickled. Oh god, someone get me some counseling!)
It sure is funny to see so many people flustered by something that don’t undestand, tho~
Especially here. Or maybe not. I seem to remember that Evil Captor gets this same kind of reaction any time he posts about his kinks.
She said she doesn’t enjoy being spanked but does it anyway because it makes him happy. This is the essence of a giving sexual relationship. I don’t particularly enjoy cunnilingus, but I’m happy to do it in order to please my partner (which I do particularly enjoy).
I think that was because he used to drop his comments into threads that had nothing to do with it, and seemed really creepy about it.
It’s not about “not understanding it.” Don;'t be such a fucking martyr. It’s about prioritizing your parental responsibilities ahead of your sexual psychodramas. The fact that you think your sexual fantasies are so fucking important is the problem, not their content
Now THAT made me laugh.
Late jumping in here but one thing no one has been able to do is show that THIS relationship, and THESE kids are being fucked up because their parents live an alternative lifestyle. I grew up with friends whose parents were first generation immigrants and their home life featured a lot more male dominance than the one in this thread did. And guess what? They came out great, and raised beautiful, healthy kids.
Maybe, just maybe as the kids are old enough to understand, and mom and dad sit them down to say "this is what we do, this is how we both show our love for each other, and we know it’s probably not what a lot of your friend’s moms and dads do, but it’s what WE do. We both love you and want you to know that different people do different things, there are no cookie cutter families and we hope dearly that when you bring our grandchildren here that they’ll have parents that love them and respect each other like we do.
The dog collar in Bob Evans kind of squicked me, but then I think Bob Evans is abuse in and of itself. $8.95 for pancakes and bacon? :eek:
It isn’t abuse by my definition. Here’s the way I look at it: she’s getting what she wants out of this relationship. She allows some things to happen that she doesn’t enjoy, because a) she feels they’re good for the relationship or her personally, b) she has accepted them as a compromise to make her husband happy, c) she has an ambiguous / ambivalent attitude towards these particular activities, and as such has not made them a hard limit, or d) some mixture of some or all of the above.
In my perception, it’s a part of the relationship she doesn’t enjoy, but allows to continue because the relationship as a whole is worth it. It may also be that allowing him to do things to her that are not overtly pleasant makes the relationship more worth it - because she can gain some pleasure from suffering to please him. It sounds like a martyr complex, and it kind of is, but that’s neither inherently unhealthy nor inherently counterproductive. To me, the mating of someone who likes to serve (even unpleasantly) with someone who likes service is ideal, because it gives both parties a chance to express their needs openly, and get them filled.
Yes, there are situations that are abusive where the victim stays because she has convinced herself she is happy. This is pretty clearly not one of those, because she is obviously allowed and encouraged to speak openly, and chooses to volunteer information both private and personal in order to encourage better understanding of her situation. She’s not hiding things, and she’s showing us a very coherent picture of someone who has chosen an unorthodox situation because it is what pleases her. That, to me, is a perfect example of what differentiates BDSM from abuse.
I’ll stop being such a fucking martyr when you stop being such a fucking crusader. 
You’re not the only one with a hold on right and wrong, Dio. I love your ‘sexual psychodramas’ catchphrase, tho - really classy to reconfigure someone’s relationship into such a bite-size value judgment!
I don’t have any kids (here’s where you tell me how horrible I am and how my perspective will never be as glorious or holy as yours. Oop, did I cue you early? Sorry), but the mom-OP has not given even a shred of evidence that they ignore their kids’ physical or mental needs in favor of practicing their kink. Just because what you would do as a parent is drop all your desires and emotional obligations for your kids doesn’t mean, y’know, jack shit for someone else who is, by any definition but yours, a safe and responsible parent.
Ditto. I also find myself in the odd position of agreeing with someone who I previously had written of as hopeless and probably a troll. Threads like this teach you a lot about people.
So my partner is mentally ill because we’ve discussed having a relationship virtually like the one in the OP? I’m sure he’d be interested to know that.
This is one of the most asinine things I have ever read.
I think the word “hatehateHATE” precludes “c” and consequently “d”.
He tends to get it when his posts about his kinks crop up in threads with little or no relation to them, not when he talks about his kinks in general. Like, someone will post about some actress in a new movie and he’ll gratuitously post about some scene in a completely different movie where she was tied up, or something.
I don’t really have much more to add, but I wanted to point out that “judgemental” applies equally well as to anyone on the “it’s fine” side, as well as the “it’s not fine” side.
Also it’s pretty much a pisspoor insult altogether, since you can use it in accurately in absolutely any situation whatsoever in which any party has a side at all. I mean, the only way not to be judgmental would be to have zero thoughts one way or the other. But fear not, I shall make sure I take to heart the admonishment for judging random people i’ve never met whose situation I have few details about to be doing something bad from the various judgers of random people they’ve never met whose situation they have few details about to be good.
Sorry to be “vanilla” but…
Hear Hear. They both have some major mental issues to deal with. No kids, no big deal. With kids - it’s disgusting…
I can totally get my kink on, but this relationship to me is obviously predicated on a mental issue. Sorry guys, but this not healthy…
Well, I think the implication of the insult is that someone is being overly judgmental. Like, for example, proclaiming that someone is obviously a bad parent with mental problems despite a profound ignorance of that person’s household and psychology.
What I’m getting from what you wrote here is basically that it’s not abuse because it is consensual (and that has been a recurring theme from everyone who is supporting the OP of the linked thread). Shodan linked to some studies showing that children can be psychologically harmed when a parent chooses to stay in an abusive relationship, and some folks responded to say that it’s not the same thing, because this is consensual. So, my question is this…from the perspective of the children, how are the two situations functionally different? If they see a relationship that is inherently unequal and humilating to one of the parties, how does it make it OK in their minds to tell them that this is the way mommy wants it? I have to say that to me, it seems like that would actually be worse…that is, validating bad behavior by saying that the person it’s being perpetrated on likes it. I have to say I agree with Diogenes and Shodan in that it seems potentially damaging to the children. And where is the “consensual” line drawn? If I tell my husband it’s ok to beat the living shit out of me because I enjoy it, should he go ahead and do that?
The thing about the tickling, for example, I found disturbing. She hates it, her husband does it anyway, even though he knows she does, and he gets the children involved in it. I find it in no way analagous to performing oral sex, as VarlosZ suggests. As VarlosZ points out, he does it not because the act itself is so fun for him, but because his partner enjoys it, which makes him happy. That makes sense…we all do some things we don’t particularly enjoy to make our partners happy. In the case of the tickling, she does not enjoy it, and the only possible reason that her husband could therefore get a charge out of it, or even bother to do it at all, is that he knows she hates it…there’s nothing else for him to get out of it. That’s a bit twisted, IMO. And the fact that the children are apparently encouraged to do the same is teaching them a very bad lesson about how they ought to treat their mother, and a future spouse as well.
But surely, if the problem stems from a lack of knowledge that the accusers share, then it’s equally as overly judgmental to assume that the proclamation is wrong?
If it was an insult devoid of any other implications, no problem. “I think you’re being overly judgmental, we can’t assume one way or the other” = fine by me. But it’s not just that; it’s “You’re being overly judgmental, plus you’re wrong/i’m right”. Neither party has more knowledge than the other, yet, somehow, it is overly judgmental to be on one side, but entirely reasonable to be on the other.