Where'd Melin go?

About This Message Board
41

I am a member, and also a principle participant on the thread in question. (Though you would never know it if you read the butchered versions you have recieved so far-see my thread about requesting it in it’s entirety by email) I have already posted in other threads and am still trying to catch up.
Ed’s explanation of the firing was that it happened because she got into a public dispute with another moderator…I have a lot of problems with accusing Melin of this. Here is the MAIN one that I don’t intend to see swept under the rug here. What you are not being told (keeping in mind this is all out of context) is:

  1. Long before Melin’s “offense”, Jill had made a POINT of posting as STAFF. Melin’s post, that got her fired, was signed specifically “Privately, not as moderator”.
    2.Ed also goes on to eloquently explain that he had made a previous decision concerning the discussion of board issues in a public forum. He is now choosing to “stretch” this to include this issue. Far as I can tell, there was no decision until this came up. So, did she get fired for breaking a rule that didn’t exist?
    3.In the face of the decision to make this a policy, Melin apparantly continued to stand up for her right to express her opinions and Jill told Ed what he wanted to hear.
  2. It is evident to me, through the entire handling of this, that what Ed wants is a right to censor. Let’s hear it for "stamping out ignorance!!
  3. I have apologized and explained my absence on other threads. But I am back now, and I am appalled at the lack of “management” on this. (including the fact that Nick failed to move this discussion early on) If it is true that we are presented with this forum with the pretext that Cecil presents…then why is Ed acting this was?
  4. I am also insulted that most all of my posts were deleted. I am the person Melin had the audacity to quote back to Jill!
  5. I see from the chat about the new system that management and members alike do not like to be bothered with reading an entire thread before throwing in their 2 cents. This is the main reason this thread began to fall apart and was to be my next thread at the time. This was a serious and valid debate, and deserved to be treated as such. Until all this happened it was the most honest and genuine discussion I had been involved in here. If someone is threatened by being asked to address specific points and comments they have made, then they should bow out. I was continually frustrated by Jill’s responses. She claims to love debate, but I question that she understands the premise. When a point is put directly to you, and you do not respond on point–you lose that one. She repeatedly ignored these and only continued to restate her position. I am the one that expressed being VERY ANGRY…Had Melin not said what she had, I would have really let loose, we would have ended up in the pit and she would not have been able to run to Ed. Since it was Melin, she had this option. Her last post was to, as far as I can tell, make up wrongs that had been done her and to inform everyone that she was “hitting the reply button on top of the thread and not going near the rest of it. Life is too short.” To be fair, these remarks were submerged in other text where she justified herself and apologize…but frankly, IN CONTEXT, it sounded more like a child stamping her feet than a sincere apology.
  6. Melin says she offered to apologize, publically, if Jill would and that Jill refused. Nowhere have I seen anyone refute this, so I must assume it is true. So where is Melin wrong and WHAT AM I MISSING?
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Jill, Ed and Tuba. Interesting.

Nothing has changed.

:frowning:

JOHN the Cyberian54

43

Ouch, ouch, ouch, ouch.

Will the beatings never stop?

Is there any purpose or point to these repetitive rants?

Ouch, ouch.

44

Dead Horse/Deceased Equine, quit it. You’re being excruciatingly annoying.

“Me fail English? That’s unpossible!”

“English? Who needs that? I’m never going to England.”

45

Laura, that’s really funny. Involuted. Or is it convoluted?

I post essentially the same message in several different places – short and concise – and I’m being “excruciatingly annoying.” Wrong! You should have said that I was beating a dead horse.

Other folks post essentially the same tirade – long and venomous – in several different places, and I say they’re beating a dead horse.

Convoluted. Or is it involuted?

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You are being neither convoluted nor involuted. You’re simply being annoying.

“Me fail English? That’s unpossible!”

“English? Who needs that? I’m never going to England.”

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What the dead horse doesn’t realize is that quite a few people are really pissed off about this, and a few cutesy posts under a fake name isn’t going to change that anytime soon. In fact, the fake name part of it pisses me off even more, although I won’t speak for anyone else. If I speak for someone else, Tuba might make an angry post about me and then delete it before I get a chance to see it.

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I sure hope I won’t live to regret this. . .

There’s a lot that you’re missing, including most of the real facts of the case, but arguing with you is not going to make a difference.

I quoted the last because that is so incorrect it screams for rebuttal. Jill has tried to resolve this situation all along, in public, in mail, in IMs.

Jill hasn’t even been in the country the past few days and has not been posting or reading the board. To make statements that she cannot answer and to then claim them as truth because she does not answer is quite unfair – and a distortion of the truth.

your humble TubaDiva/SDStaffDiv
for the Straight Dope

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Of course, I have the IM where I offered to apologize for my choice of words if she would apologize for hers.

So do you, Jenny. I sent it to you right after it occurred.

-Melin

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First of all, the following in no way, shape or form is intended to represent the views, opinions, or policy of The Straight Dope organization, The Chicago Reader, any former or present staff members, or the Master hisownself. This is a personal statement by me, Ranger Jeff, The Idol of American Youth.

All of the people directly involved in this situation are friends of mine. I don’t believe that ANYone involved is happy about what happened and how things were resolved. I know some friendships were ended because of this, I don’t think anyone is happy about this. I’m sure not.

I think some tincture of time would aid immensely in putting this situation to rest. I don’t think that’s gonna happen, because there are some folks who take great joy in squirting hi test on smoldering embers. I can’t do anything about that, other than try to not add to the conflaguration.

And while I’m at it…

I like the new reply window. I like the pagination feature on long threads. I like toasting peeps over a fire.

If anyone chooses to take offense at what I’ve said, get over it or learn to live with it. I’ve had battles chosen for me before and I didn’t like it much. I’ll chose my own battles now, thankyouverymuch.

Happy trails to all of you,

Ranger Jeff
*The Idol of American Youth *

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[As far as I can tell, you can do one of three things with this message. You can delete it without mention, you can delete it and ask that it be moved (which I believe is highly inappropriate), or you can leave it be and allow individuals to derive their own opinions. Your call.]

Frankly, this whole fiasco has caused me to lose respect for the three affiliates of the Straight Dope that I had the most respect for: Melin, Jill, and Ed. Among the staff/moderators, Melin and Jill are the only ones who consistently provide well reasoned, well informed, and complete answers. Ed’s researching abilities exceed those of anyone else associated with the organization, staff or otherwise (and that’s saying a hell of a lot considering some of the people associated with the SD). I suppose Dex deserves a nod at this point too, but since his considerable knowledge is in areas that don’t interest me, I really have no perspective from which to judge him. Put quite simply, these people are unmatched by the rest of the staff and members. None of the rest can even come close to their abilities and knowledge. Respect doesn’t come easily from me, and there are damned few people in this world who I have ever truly respected. Yet these three have earned a tremendous amount.

Now the three people I respect most out of the whole lot of you are acting like children. Furthermore, one more of the staff who I’ve always felt rather neutral about (as they’ve never really done anything exceptionally well but moderate, which they have done exceptionally well up until now) is acting in an even more childish manner.

We’ve always had a problem with children in the various incarnations of the SD message boards. Hell, on days that we were on the Welcome screen, it wasn’t at all unusual to have four or more children come running in and ask stupid questions, all the while screaming with feigned indignation at the unfair treatment they had received. Frankly, though, in all of my wildest dreams, I had never even imagined the possibility that we would be overrun by four children who were all members of the staff.

I say in absolute honesty, that in all the years that I’ve read the SD boards, I have never witnessed four individuals disgrace themselves as severely as they have.

I hope that you will pause for a moment to think about that.

Because I’ve been thinking about it for a week, hoping that perhaps I could find some justification for their behavior. How on Earth could three people that I respected so much act like this? I have come to the conclusion that I am simply a bad judge of character.

It has become obvious that the principles of the staff of the SD and my principles are now in opposition. My principles (where they intersect with the SD) tell me that I should work to eliminate ignorance. I don’t know what the principles of the staff are, though I used to think that they were the same. Clearly, I was mistaken. Their mission is no longer mine. Perhaps it never was.

My contribution here is not a large one. Its absence in the past has meant little, and there is no reason to think that it would mean more now. However, whatever insignificant amount that I am capable of contributing, you simply do not deserve. In the future, if I feel compelled to contribute information, I will post it in misc.facts.straight-dope and provide a reference in the thread. Anyone who truly wants the information can get to it easily enough. I can no longer find it within myself to contribute to this board directly.

-Bob, signing off

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TubaDiva-Obviously, I do not have the facts on what happened in the office, or in IM’s. None of us do. The excerpt you chose to get so angry about, was a pretty simple straight forward statement and question. It came from Melin’s post, it evidently took place before she got fired, and, to this point, Ed and Jill have not refuted it. Jill may well be out of the country…she has, however, posted to the new minorities thread that was started for those of you that actually want
to continue this discussion. (I believe it’s in Great Debates)

As for the rest of the facts, I seem to be one of the only people that DOES know the facts of what went on in that thread…Everything that I have seen reposted is butchered so badly that you can’t tell WHAT happened.

You and I have NEVER communicated before. Where do you get off implying that I am a liar and can’t be “argued” with??!! I was, in fact, VERY involved in that thread. I think that gives me, at least, as much right as all the other people, to interject what I know and how I feel about the situation.

I’m beginning to wonder if, even you folks, have an honest copy of the thread.

53

Regarding my posting “officially” as a staff member on that thread, my post by SDSTAFFJill was a mistake. The computer I use at work puts that screen name in by default (though I don’t even use it anymore), and I didn’t see it in time to change it. My moderator screen name on this message board is “JillGat.” I apologize for the confusion that caused. Although moderators are free to post our views and opinions on the message board, we are never really posting as “individuals as opposed to moderators” because the board adds “moderator” under our names (unless we use pseudonyms, which I don’t do). I support the SDMB policy that moderators not fight or attack each other publically on the message board. I think it should be possible for us all to express our views without insulting each other. I apologized a few times in that thread and I apologize again if I have insulted anyone.
Jill

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You all agree to the arbitrary and capricious censorship rules of the SDMB when you post on this board. So, why are you so surprised? It was that way on the AOL SDMB too. The “moderators” do not moderate, are cliquish, wield power at whim and exercise bias in their “evaluations.” It will NEVER change.

By agreeing to these unfair rules you are enslaving yourselves to tyrants. Duhhhhhhhh

For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism.

55

John–You are absolutely correct…and that is the main thing that most of us are angry about. Unfortunately, many of us chose this board because it operates under the copywrited name of “SD…fighting to stamp out ignorance.” It is represented as a forum for freedom of expression and thought. The actions of this staff (deletions, etc.) is in direct opposition of this message. It is my belief that Cecil and the Reader should think about what they are attaching there copywrite to.

Jill–I have inquired, in other threads, if anyone has a copy of what went on after the night of the 2nd. The last posting (of Melin’s) that I have is the is the one where she expressed that your statement (not you) was garbage spelled B---_…Before that she was personally attacked by Terey, and after that all of us were accused of being “hens having a hissy fit” by someone new to the thread. I haven’t heard anything from you, until now, either through the boards or by email…and we both know that I am the one you think Melin took a stand with against you. If something else took place, publicly, I have asked to be filled in…so far, to no avail. The most extensive reposting I have read is butchered by half, the only post of mine that is there is my last and the one Melin quoted from. The only thing that posting accomplished was to cast a very different light on the discussion. What am I to think?!

56

Well, I thought I’d heard everything, but I guess I was wrong.

Lew, I’m assuming you didn’t frequent the old AOL board. If that’s the case, and if John’s on this board to stay for a while, I urge you to stick around so that you can publicly regret that statement. No flame intended there, it’s just that. . . we’ll, you’ll see.

I’m not sure if you intended that to be a direct quote, but I believe the actual phrase is, “Fighting Ignorance Since 1973 (it’s taking longer than we thought).” What you quoted may appear elsewhere, but I haven’t seen it. I’m not trying to be overly critical there, but since you used quotations, I thought you might want to make sure the phrase you used was the one you intended.

You know, in all the years that I’ve been involved in one way or another with the various incarnations of The Straight Dope Message Board, I’ve never seen it represented as a forum for “freedom of expression and thought,” at least insofar as I think I understand your meaning. To me, it’s always been a place for people to ask questions, get answers (and flames), and be entertained. I have always assumed that my continued participation was at the whim of the staff, and they had every right to dump any post of mine for any or no reason. That knowledge hasn’t diminished my enjoyment of the board in the least – and I have most certainly had posts dumped!

Maybe I’m the only one, but I completely disagree. Maybe that’s just because I don’t agree with your apparent assessment of “What The Board Is.”

Rich

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[[John–You are absolutely correct ]] Lew
Talk about things you don’t hear very often …

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Well, Bob and Rich, if anything can be said in Cyb’s defense, it’s that it seems he’s gone to college since I’ve last seen him. I’m amazed he can spell “arbitrary” or “capricious,” much less use them both in a sentence, and correctly, no less! Hell, take away the trademark “duhhhhhh” and he sounds like anyone else on this board.

(I did, however, get a huge chuckle out of the fact that the first person to respond to him agreed with him. Wonders never cease.)

59

OK folks…I obviously was not clear. I was being sarcastic. I agreed with his statement about what other boards do. As I continued to say, that is exactly why people are upset. They don’t expect to be arbitrarily censored here.

I am sorry for the confusion…if you have read any of my other posts on this subject, you know that I am NOT happy about this situation.

60

Hmmm. . . I’m not sure I understand your point, Lew. It doesn’t look to me like John said anything about what “other boards do,” and I’m not really sure where your sarcasm is. No matter, my sarcas-o-meter has been off before, perhaps it’s malfunctioning again.

Yep, that’s clear. It still sort of surprises me, though, that everyone’s so uptight about this, and clamoring for the “original thread,” when Ed made it clear that that wasn’t the reason that anyone was fired, or resigned, or whichever it was. But whatever. I have no desire to beat the dead horse, lest it come and berate me. :slight_smile:

Oh, and in the spirit of “full disclosure,” yes, I’m a staff member, although just barely: I’m not a moderator, but I’ve contributed to a few mailbag items.

Rich