Which comes first, the trust or the egg?

When you meet someone you are considering dating do you immediately assume that everything they tell you is true and that they are who they say they are until they prove otherwise or do you require proof in the form of action before you trust them completely?

I met this guy on a dating site. We started talking last Monday. We had our first date on Friday. We have no friends in common so everything I know about him is what he tells me about himself and what I observe when we are together. He is very sweet but he seems perplexed by the fact that, though I believe him when he tells me things, words mean less to me than actions. Being on time for dates, respectful of the people around you, and affectionate towards me (in a non-creepy way, of course) means more to me than all of the flowery compliments in the world. I believe in taking time to get to know someone before opening my heart, or my legs for that matter, so that I can look back on a situation with no regrets for the decisions I make if and when it ends.

He is the exact opposite. He wants to trust immediately and fill the conversation with flowery compliments and sexual innuendo. Even though my ad specifically said that I am looking to take my time and I don’t want to rush into anything he seems almost offended that I am not ready to invite him into my home or my pants after only 9 days of conversation and two in person dates. Whenever the conversation turns to sexy topics he delves into a lot of detail in a narrative format and asks a lot of strange questions. (How do you feel right now? When did you realize you first felt that way? If I were to X, then Y, then Z, then X again, how would that make you feel? What if I did X and Y to your Q?) He got very panicked tonight because after he asked me to list all the things I think are sexy about him I didn’t ask him to list all of my sexiest attributes in return. It seems like because he needs the words and the compliments he expects that I should too and that I’m not really into him if I don’t need him to say all of these things to me.

We are trying to find a happy middle ground where he doesn’t feel rejected and I don’t feel forced but it is difficult. I am turning to the dope to try and figure out which one of us is the weird one. :smiley:

If you just starting talking last Monday, I’d say he seems to be taking this pretty fast. Usually someone who wants to get too seriously too fast (man or woman) is someone you want to be wary of.

I know you said it was outlined in your ad, but have you directly told him how you feel? If you have, I’d have to wonder why you’d want to begin a relationship with someone who already doesn’t respect your boundaries.

If you haven’t, tell him. I’m sure a lot of people may say one thing in a bio and then behave in a different way. I’d give him the benefit of the doubt if I hadn’t laid it out in black and white.

Sounds creepy to me.

I’ve never done 'net dating, but I would guess that he thinks ‘nice girls’ don’t express interest in sex, or advertise for companionship, so either way he has a license to push the issue.


Is he actually paying attention to what you are actually saying and doing, or is he inside his own world of plans and imaginings? I ask this because I was the same way (though not with the stories and innuendo), and it was fiendishly difficult to get out of my own head and actually simply perceive the other person.

And here comes the bandwagon of people yelling ‘creepy creepy ooooooh nooooo.’ Yes he’s going fast, but that’s not the issue. Like you said, how are his actions? How did he handle the conversation about your boundaries? How do you feel about this guy? You sound like you’re scared.

Why do you care who’s normal? Normal doesn’t mean shit. If I was going to give any recommendation at all, I’d need more information. Sorry if I sound rough but it sounds to me like you’re putting way too much priority on this dope poll. Maybe it’s my old baggage rearing its head.

FWIW, it sounds to me like he’s trying to be sexy and flirtacious but is failing at it.

Ok, I have dated A LOT from the internet almost exclusively, because in this little town, there aren’t a lot of offerings.

I think it is too difficult to put a “one size fits all” diagnosis or analysis on this situation. I have dated men who, on the second date, put their hand on my leg (the chemistry was WRONG WRONG WRONG)in a movie theater, and barely lived to tell it. And I have dated men who I have kissed on a second date. It depended on the man and the way we interacted.

You have been very clear in your bio, but the important thing here is to note how the guy is treating you. If the conversation is veering into red flag land, (for me it involved a guy actually asking some very intimate and suggestive things that I was not comfortable with) then you need to follow your intuition. However, if the guy simply lacks social skills, well, he is learning, too, then, isn’t he?

I start off trusting someone, because that is what I expect, trustworthiness. I dated a man who **said ** he wasn’t racist, but every other thing out of his mouth was a racial epithet or racist joke. He not only lost my trust, he lost my interest and my friendship.

If you find yourself constantly second guessing or analyzing, my suggestion is let him go back into the pond. There are plenty of men out here who will respect you and SHOW you.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Uhhhh, I am gonna side with the “sounds creepy” gang…

He sounds like he is using “sales techniques” with you (leading questions, listening only enough to form his next planned/internally scripted response, etc)

It comes across as manipulative.

One thing a female friend told me was "Always watch how your date treats servers at restauraunts, and such… THAT is how they will treat you once the “new and shiney” wears off the relationship.

Good luck, but my advice is reload your hook and cast again… There are more fish in the sea…

Major red flag right here.

It’s just not logical or prudent to trust someone immediately. I mean, it would be bad if you just assumed that everything the guy said or did was BS, but it makes perfect sense to hold off on really trusting someone until you had a reason to do so. He’s being manipulative by making you doubt your own (very reasonable) instincts.

So put me in with the “'creepy creepy ooooooh nooooo” crowd.

Trust your instinct, pbbth. You’re doin’ fine.

It’s reasonable to try to find a middle ground if that’s what both of you want (as opposed to running away going “ack!creepy!creepy!creepy!”).

[Excessive rambling that all can ignore] For some reason, your post reminds me of “B,” someone I had a very serious relationship with in college.

I met B at a mixer when I’d been at college all of 3 days; I was 17, he was 27. Despite the age difference we hit it off; after we’d been talking a while he asked if I wanted to take a walk around the campus lake (a big, long, DARK walk far from people or lights). The needle on my creep-o-meter immediately went to “dangerDANGERdangerDANGER” and I responded “thanks, but we’ve just met - I don’t want to do that right now, it sounds like fun after we’ve gotten to know each other.” He was offended that I’d mistake him for some kind of creepy perv (he could tell I thought that was a possibility, even though I tried to be nice), but…he gave me another chance and decided not to write me off based on that.

On approximately our second date, he said “you know, I won’t marry you. I have no intention of ever getting married.”

My thought was “Who the HELL are you to be so conceited to think I want to marry you on date #2? Hey buster, I’m 17, I’m here to have fun, not find a marriage partner.” My actual response was a bit more polite, but for a long time I was appalled that he’d bring up the subject that way. Later, we talked it out and he explained that because he was so much older than me, he worried that I would expect him to want to settle down soon.

Anyway, that relationship lasted for a good 4 years, and although we did eventually break up (interestingly enough, in large part because he had decided he wanted to marry me and therefore did not want me so heavily involved in the campus newspaper and other extracurricular activities; I said SCREW THAT) I remember him with enormous respect and affection … the point I am trying to make is that while the creep-o-meter ain’t necessarily wrong, it is also okay if you do try to make something work despite some initially weird signs. I love my life and don’t regret our breakup, but I also think that in some alternate universe, B and I are probably happily married.[/Excessive rambling that all can ignore]

This is very true. It isn’t that he isn’t sexy, because he is, but it feels like he needs me to tell him he is sexy and that he needs me to respond to the flirtation or he can’t tell how I feel. I think he is just socially inept, not creepy. He is also an attorney and he writes part time for extra cash so I can see where someone whose world is built on words and trust the way his must be could feel the way he does. I just wanted to ask about it here and see if this was maybe a gender thing with most guys saying, “Why wouldn’t you trust somebody right away?” and women saying, “No, trust must be earned!” or if it was more of a personality difference between the two of us.

I’d like to really take the time to get to know one another because otherwise he is sweet and funny and incredibly smart. This trust thing just threw me for a bit of a loop.

Doesn’t sound particularly creepy (though I’m not entirely sure what ‘panicked’ means) just sort of annoying. If he’s doling out so many compliments now, how will ones in the future mean anything? And if a man can’t understand why women might be a tad warier than them early on in a relationship, well, buy him a clue.

You know, I met a guy recently who was a lawyer with a writing gig. A bit needy. Canadian. Not sure if he was into online dating, though.

I don’t see his desire for compliments as a matter of being more comfortable with words; I just see it as a form of insecurity. Same with his perhaps rigid expectations of the relationship, insofar as if you don’t do A, B, and C, it makes him worry that you’re not into him. At some level, he’s not comfortable with himself, so he needs an unusual amount of outside validation.

It’s possible that this issue will diminish if the relationship deepens. It’s also possible, though, that the opposite will happen: if he’s prepared to expose this level of neediness this early in the relationship, he may have greater depths of insecurity that he has yet to show you. You may find yourself continually having to scramble to keep up with new emotional needs.

It seems to me that for a point so early in the relationship, you’re quite frequently being made to justify your feelings. Is the upside of this relationship worth working this hard?

One more vote for creepy here.

I don’t think I’m adding anything original here but I just want to say that trusting people too quickly in this situation can get you into all sorts of problems. One of my former therapists used to tell his clients - male and female - not to have sex for at least 10 dates. If someone doesn’t like you enough to hang out with you 10 times w/o sex, then what does that say? I think the idea is to tell them that ASAP. If there’s no second date, you save yourself a lot of time.

Also, what kind of an asshole asks you on a second date what you find sexy about him? Much too aggressive, please take appropriate precautions.

It just sounds like he’s trying to bully you into having sex quickly by confusing you and making you doubt yourself. Nothing good can come of that. :frowning:

I like Plan B’s input. If he did have something big to tell you (herpes, ongoing paternity suit, major debt, extreme views on abortion that don’t match your own…) can you trust that he would have told you that? Sadly, you do need to invest enough time with a person that you can trust that, if there were one of these biggies, he would have told you or it would have come out through observation. I suspect he has less to lose from misplaced trust than you do. Have you met his friends, family, coworkers? If you haven’t met at least a few of these, I don’t think you have enough information to trust him.

My money says he’s so into you (and knows that he’s not as smooth as he’d like to be) that he’s trying too hard.

Sounds like someone’s done a number on his self-esteem. Does he give any kind of account of his past relationships?

From what he’s told me he has been single for the last year because his fiancee, whom he had been with for 3 years at that point, came home one day and told him he was too boring and she couldn’t be with him anymore. Then she moved to Las Vegas with a guitar player half her age. I can see where that might screw him up a bit.

More than “just a bit” if I grok. Could be he took the “boring” excuse to heart and now thinks he has to be less so (less himself hence his awkwardness) in order to keep your interest. Or he might not know why he got ditched and again is lost and anxious about letting you slip by.

Based on your comments and the kind of stuff he does for money I’d say he’s a very linear-thinking, analytical type. Pretty good candidate for boring, admittedly, but his word is probably gold. (that’s all a WAG) If that’s the case, he’d be baffled by a blind-side hit like the one he took from the fiancee. Not knowing where that one came from, he doesn’t know when you’re going to drop him point blank. I’d say that’s his insecurity and the source for his need for your validation.

Innuendo is playful, it’s the foundation of some of the best humor ever. I’d say that in his case it’s more of an attempt to make you laugh and get into your heart than to get into your pants.

Sounds like what you got there is a mess that might just be worth cleaning up. Shouldn’t be too hard, just put him at ease by taking a little more charge of the relationship than you normally would. Once he mellows out he’ll be more himself. Either that or he’s a complete nutter and your spidey sense are trying to warn you.

I’m not going to say creepy so much as insecure. No other real advise to offer at this point other than to ask how much of it you’re willing to tolerate and if you think he’s going to be able to get over it any time soon.

I think you have to have some trust, but full blown trust needs to be earned. i.e. all the “safe words” in the world would not have me letting someone tie me up on the first date. Nor am I spilling my life story on the first date. Nor am I even going into his apartment unless I’ve decided I want sex. But a minimum amount of trust needs to be there for me to get in a car with someone, go out to dinner, give him my name and phone number.

I’m going for insecure as well - instead of creepy - on the 'giving him the benefit of the doubt" principle. It might be wise to say “I’m not going to say things to you I don’t mean or that you might take to mean more than they do - at least, not until you know me well enough to get an accurate interpretation of my words - and that won’t be for a while.” That way he may understand where you are coming from.

There’s a lot of good advice in this thread, so I’m just going to pop in and suggest that you wait at least three dates before you let him do Y to your Q, no matter how it makes you feel. :slight_smile: