Which current players in MLB are shoo-ins for the Hall of Fame?

NYR407 - I guess if we had this convo 20 years ago right after Carter was traded to the Mets, I might have said “The Mets needed a power-hitting outfielder like Andre Dawson (Hawk)!”. You may have said, “Naw - they got a solid catcher and they need a solid professional, agressive first baseman - like Don Mattingly!” :wink:

Jeter came up in 1995 when Mattingly was retiring (prematurely IMO) and Seattle clobbered them in the best-of-five. I’d like to think Jeter, if he’d started 15 years ago, would have had a hall of fame career. I’m with you on Mattingly - and I’ve gotta fall back on my belief that championships figure in to HOF voting, and say that Mattingly would be a first-ballot if he retired in, say 2000.

<ot on the trade> Yankees trade away another popular player (Johnson) and practically steal a power pitcher from the Expos. All other teams surrender to the might of Yankees.</ot>

<ugh> As per Mattingly retiring in 2000 - I meant if he was younger (as per the Jeter being 15 years older).</ugh>

There are a lot of relatively recent (and some active) pitchers with 300+ saves, and because the trend has been toward more-specialized pitchers, I think there will soon be plenty of 400-save guys, too. But the role of the closer is still newish in terms of baseball’s long history, which is why voters have put only Wilhelm and Fingers in the HoF so far.

I’m not so sure Franco will or should get in, but among active closers I might give a nod to either Hoffman or Nen. With any luck, they’ll continue to have excellent careers and further cement their imminent enshrinement.

I don’t see Posada as being HOF material, not even close. He’s never hit .300, got over 100rbi and 30hr once, this past year. The last 4 years he’s been a very solid and reliable hitter, but he’s no superstar. His defense has improved, he’s pretty good at throwing guys out now, but he still never blocks the plate when he needs to.

Jeter, OTOH, has a .317 average (5th among active players), gets tons of runs and hits, and seems to be a very smart and active guy in the field and on the bases. If he keeps it up, I’d say he’s in.

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Jeter may have a lower career b.a. (.323 to .317) than Nomah, but he’s got 1548 hits compared to 1231, 178 stolen bases compared to 82, 926 runs scored compared to 685 and Jeter’s fielding pct is .976 compared to Mr. Hamm’s .968.
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The BBWAA has announced their 2004 ballot (hofers and honorees).

Dennis Eckersley is the ‘quality -v- quantity’ acid-test for closers. Also Lee Smith. Randy Myers.

Why is Fernano Valenzuela not in yet? I guess that’s BBWAA dumbass oversight.

I’d vote for Sandberg, Dawson, Hernandez, Mattingly, Valenzuela.

Again, what’s with the suggestions that being a Yankee helps players get into the Hall of Fame? Folks, it just ain’t so!

From 1947-1964, the Yankees won all but 3 AL pennants, which made them one of the greatest dynasties in sports history. So, if ANY team were ever to be overrepresented in the Hall of Fame, you’d think it would be the Yankees of that era, eh?

Guess again: exactly 4 Yankees from those years were elected by the writers to the Hall of Fame: Joe Dimaggio, Yogi Berra, Mickey Mantle, and Whitey Ford. In other words, the writers got it exactly right! Those were precisely the 4 Yankees from that era who deserved to make it!

A lot of very good (but not great) Yankees from that era were correctly passed over. The writers DIDN’T elect Roger Maris, or Elston Howard, or Moose Skowron, or Phil Rizzuto (the Veteran’s Committe was responsible for that error), or Billy Martin, or Allie Reynolds, or Vic Raschi… the list goes on.

The Yankee squads of that era were generally built around platoons and solid role-players, not around superstars. Indeed, the Yankees of that period only HAD 4 superstars, and those are precisely the Yankees elected to the Hall of Fame.

The Veteran’s Committee has elected a handful of undeserving New York players to the Hall of Fame, but they’ve selected undeserving players from MANY cities! Bill Mazeroski wasn’t a worthy selection either (and anyone who disagrees is challenged to explain why Mazeroski is more deserving than Frank White).

There are SOME advantages to playing in New York- higher salaries and greater opportunities for endorsements are among them. But playing in New York does NOT increase a player’s chances of winning awards or of being elected to the Hall of Fame. If it did, men like Thurman Munson, Ron Guidry and Don Mattingly would be shoo-ins. In reality, none is ever likely to be elected (and, sadly, that’s as it should be- none was quite good enough).

Heck, to show you how little power the New York media have over the selection process, I remember how, back in the 1970’s, the New York newspapers (led by Dick Young, then the dean of NY sportswriters) were campaigning vigorously to get Gil Hodges into the Hall of Fame. Did it work? Nope. Hodges never came close to getting the needed votes.

Not that I’m saying Hodges was ripped off, mind you- he was a very good player, but not a superstar. He’s more deserving than several players already in the Hall, but not as worthy as several other also-rans I can think of. I merely point to Gil Hodges as proof that, even when the allegedly omnipotent New York press pushes for a Hall of Fame candidate, they don’t have the clout to make it happen.

If the only reason you have more hits is because you’ve played longer and had had more AB’s, then who cares? Jeter has played one year more than Garciaparra and has 1000 more ABs. Moreover Garciaparra gets to more balls than Jeter.

On what basis should Fernando Valenzuela be in it? Let’s compare two players Player A and Player B:

Player A - 3.54 ERA, 173-153, 2074 Ks, 103 ERA+.
Player B - 3.85 ERA, 200-173, 2610 Ks, 115 ERA+.

Player A is Valenzuela, Player B is Chuck Finley. And Finley’s certainly not going into the Hall of Fame, so why should Valenzuela?

You have got to be kidding.

I can’t believe there’s so little talk about Ken Griffey, Jr. He’s only 19 away from 500 HRs. He’s 34, so even if he continues to suck 5-7 more years, he’ll have 550 HRs which will put him in the top 10.

Even if he retires tomorrow, he’ll have a better career than all the hitters mentioned except for Bonds and Sosa. He’ll be seen as Sandy Koufax - career ended by injury.

This is why Corbomite is not allowed to vote. Valenzuela? Posada? Mattingly? Can I add Kranepool, Koosman and Kingman ? :smiley: (I don’t know why I had three players with Ks pop in my head)

At least you were nice enough to vote for Hernandez. After all he did date Eliane.

Fame? How many folks went to games at Chavez Ravine (Dodger Stadium) to see Fernando?

I’m keen to astorian’s take on the HOF issue, especially his mention of the beloved Gil Hodges. Sure, he’s not a superstar - yet how high is the bar set? The man should be in the HOF for managing The Mets. Big raspberry to the BBWAA. :b

Just because you’re famous for one year doesn’t make you a Hall of Famer. He was a slightly above average pitcher for the rest of his career. Hell, Roger Maris isn’t in the Hall and he actually accomplished something one year.

Not HoF material.

Call me a child of the 80s if you will, but I seriously believe Don Mattingly will be in the Hall someday.

Could be the SABR-metrics guys at work. Total Baseball has pegged Maz as the career leader in “fielding runs,” FWIW.

How many folks went to Shea Stadium to see Dwight Gooden? He was arguably better than Fernando but still not a likely HoF candidate.

Clemens, Maddux, Bonds, Henderson, P. Martinez, Piazza, Randy Johnson and probably Sosa seem like locks. Roberto Alomar looked like a lock a couple of years ago, but his mediocre showing the last two seasons and the lingering memory of the spitting incident are likely to cost him some votes – a couple more seasons at his former level might restore the luster enough. Assuming A-Rod lasts a few more years at anything approaching his track record so far, he’s in. Glavine ought to be a lock, but I suspect there’ll be some voters who don’t like the idea of putting two pitchers from one team from the same era in at almost the same time. Curt Schilling is nearly up to Glavine’s level, but has a few mediocre-to-bad years and a lot of time lost to injuries in his career to overcome.

If Griffey can manage another couple of decent seasons, he should have no trouble. If not, it’ll be close. Palmeiro deserves it, but has the DH factor working against him, even though his defense was solid enough to win him three Gold Gloves (even if he did damned little to deserve one of them). Frank Thomas also probably deserves it, but also has the DH stigma to carry without the mitigation of the Gold Gloves. Ditto Edgar Martinez, only more so.

I’m a little surprised no one else has mentioned Larry Walker yet – most of the other guys with similar career numbers are either in the Hall or aren’t eligible yet (his .967 career OPS is among the top 20 of all time), and it’s not like he’s ever been anything but an asset in the field, but people have stopped paying much attention to anything but monster offensive numbers from Colorado players. Bagwell is up there as well, and Biggio should get a boost from his demonstrated ability to play several defensively important positions well. Pudge Rodriguez improved his chances a lot this year, and a couple more seasons with 500+ PA and an OPS over .800 should seal the deal. Chipper Jones shouldn’t need a lot more to make the grade, though he has only nine full seasons under his belt so far; in those nine seasons, he’s had an OPS of over .900 seven times, including an OBP of over .390 each of those seven years, has played at least 153 games every year, and seems to be channelling the spirit of Charlie Gehringer in his consistency. After a slightly slower start, Carlos Delgado has put up six straight seasons of HOF-worthy numbers; four or five more and he’d be nearly a lock. Manny Ramirez has the numbers on his side (he’s never had an OPS below .953 in his nine seasons with over 500 PA, and has been above 1.000 the last five years straight), and five more seasons at his current pace would give him around 550 HR, but the Hall hasn’t been all that kind to players with a rep for being “difficult” (cf Dick Allen). Hasn’t necessarily kept them out, either.

For me, everyone else who’s been mentioned either doesn’t quite rise to the expected level, or has at least several more years of quality performance to deliver. Helton, Pujols, and V. Guerrero seem like the safest bets, though all have a long way to go. There’re a half-dozen other position players in the last few years of their careers who haven’t made it yet, but could with two or three outstanding seasons before they hang 'em up. Ichiro would have to play until he’s 37 just to be eligible, but if he can continue to hit over .300 and steal 30 bases a year (at least for the next four or five years), he might get a special “pioneer” pass from the voters.

With the pitchers, it’s a lot harder to call. I can’t think of anyone beyond the above who’s likely to make it just by doing a bit more of what they’ve already done: Mike Mussina possibly, John Smoltz perhaps (though see my comment on Glavine above), Mariano Rivera probably (assuming that he and the Yankees keep up their standard of the last several years for another three or four more), maybe Kevin Brown if he can mount a miraculous comeback and pitch near his peak level for another couple of years, but with the exception of Rivera none of them really “feels” like a HOFer to me. Great pitchers, all, but not quite of that caliber. There are already lots of guys with comparable careers who’ve been passed over for years, and there’s nothing about this group that makes any of them stand out above the others. It’s so damned hard to have a long, consistent career as a pitcher these days that it’s a crapshoot which of the promising young guys like Halladay, Prior, Wood, Zito, Hudson, Mulder, Gagne, etc. are going to be healthy and effective long enough.

I seriously doubt the Veterans’ Committee pays any attention whatsoever to SABR, except to express derision at the statheads.

More likely, the elderly guys thought, hey, this guy was the Ozzie Smith of his era and he hit that one home run in the World Series. Plus, he bought me a beer once. Let’s get him in.

Yeah, fair enough, Neurotik.

Then again, if Total Baseball taught me one thing about the Hall, it’s that players with duff stats can still somehow sneak into Cooperstown. Check out HoFer Eppa Rixey’s (yes! the Eppa Rixey) stats to see what I mean.

In terms of evaluating closer quality, I don’t really think the save is particularly meaningful. The rule is so silly - you can get a save for coming into a game with a three run lead, surrendering two, but getting the last out. Mariano Rivera will walk into the Hall of Fame because there has never been a better closer in the history of baseball (and I say that as a Mets fan, people!) If he doesn’t get in, no one ever will. The man has an ERA of 0.73 in the playoffs, for crying out loud!

I will never understand the level of support for Don Mattingly. He’s a first baseman with a career slugging percentage under .500 and a career OBP of only .358; he hit more than 20 home runs only five times in his entire career. I’d take Keith Hernandez first, actually, although I don’t think he makes it to HOF caliber either.

After looking at his stats, I guess I’m on board for Chipper Jones, though. It’s funny, he doesn’t seem like a hall-of-famer to me, but his numbers are right there.