Whiplash (open spoilers)

I’m surprised that this never seemed to have received its own thread, so I’m starting one.

I just saw it last night, not expecting to enjoy it very much (just rounding out my Best Picture nominees list), and was blown away.

I was surprised that JK Simmons was nominated as Best Supporting Actor – he’s probably in 75% of all scenes. He will probably, deservedly, win.

Did the kid do his own drumming?

Fletcher’s big speech near the end, where he rationalizes his behavior, caused me to pause and reflect: is his monstrous behavior worth it, if it causes a genius to reach his full potential? My conclusion: no, just based on the examples of geniuses who got there without having anyone throw a cymbal at their head. Louis Armstrong, for one.

Not meaning to thread-sh*t so soon…

I know it’s supposed to be a good movie, I know JK is supposed to be double-plus-awesome, but the trailer gives away the major story arc, and I am not really interested in spending 2 hours with someone who is a giant A-hole, even it is in the pursuit of “art” (drumming? really? O…k…) So, I will pass.

Your loss. :slight_smile:

I saw this a couple of months ago, was surprised at the time that it didn’t have a thread (since it had already been in major cities for a few weeks, never mind all the festival hype before that)… and I don’t know where I’m going with this but I guess I’m glad you started one!

Whiplash was the best movie I’ve seen from 2014, with the caveat that I’m still missing a few, particularly the ultra-late releases. There were parts of it that I really didn’t like, and that frankly made me uncomfortable; it is pretty much the definition of “not for everyone”. Actually, I described it to a friend thusly: something like The Imitation Game will appeal to about 95% of the people I know who like movies. Birdman, maybe half. Whiplash… ten percent? But for my money I thought it had the best performances, the most powerful narrative, and the most striking direction. Also, the grand finale, while ridiculous in a number of ways, was the most captivating climax of the year. I completely get everyone who doesn’t like it, but in a year where I’ve been mildly disappointed by most of the other Oscar candidates I’ve seen, it felt substantial in a way that nothing else really has.

I could appreciate *Boyhood *for being a directorial tour-de force, but it was, frankly, boring. *Selma *is gripping, but in a flashy manipulative way. But Whiplash is stunning.

You’re right about the climax. There were about 4 points where I had no idea what was going to happen next.

Great movie. As a musician myself, maybe I appreciated it on a different level (although I certainly never had a teacher like that!), but I really enjoyed it. I’m not 100% convinced Simmons deserved to win the SAG Award, as I feel he was essentially playing his J. Jonah Jameson character just in a different setting, but damn he plays it so well.

By the way, the actors (and their agents/managers) decide what category they’ll be submitting themselves for consideration for. They probably felt he had a better chance of winning a supporting role award than going up against Eddie Redmayne and Michael Keaton, and it turned out to be a good decision.

And the kid did indeed do his own drumming. I watched Whiplash and Birdman on back-to-back evenings, and was taken aback by how similar the soundtracks happened to be!

I have no clue who J. Jonah Jameson is. What’s it from?

That’s not true for the Oscars. The studio can suggest the category but the actors who vote for nomination can put people anywhere they please. A couple of recent examples would be Keisha Castle-Hughes from Whale Rider. During awards season she kept getting nominated in Best Supporting but when Oscar nominations came out, they put her in the Best Actress category. The same thing happenened to Quvenzhané Wallis, who kept getting put into Best Supporting Actress for her astonishing performance in Beasts of the Southern Wild. The Oscar voters must have said to themselves individually, just as they did with Keisha, “But she’s in every single scene, the whole movie revolves around her. Fuck that Supporting noise” and nominated her for Best Actress.

The voters could have put Simmons in Lead if they’d wanted. Guess they didn’t want to.

Yes.

Peter Parkers newspaper editor in the Spiderman movies.

In the words of the late, great Roger Ebert “I hated, hated, HATED this movie”.

I shoot concerts and love music and absolutely cannot understand the love this ugly, nasty and deeply stupid movie is getting. Yes, it features a pyrotechnic performance by Simmons, but the story makes no sense.

First off, any teacher who routinely verbally, and more importantly physically, abused his students would never have risen to be that highly respected. He would have been fired long ago (preferably out of a cannon…into the Sun). This is a sports movie masquerading as a music movie, and while a culture of sadism and co-commitment masochism is endemic to the sports world, it doesn’t happen in music.

In my work, I’ve met hundreds of musicians and dozens of music teachers, and I don’t know of one who has spoken of a teacher who *slapped *them into the best performance of their lives. Instead, they speak of teachers who inspired them, who introduced them to the joy of music.

Simmons is playing a sociopath bully, someone who any sane person would do whatever is possible to get as far away from as early as possible.

The writer is a hack, pure and simple. “Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent”, as they say, but it is also the first choice of the hack. Writing a scene of psychological tension is a lot more difficult than just having a bully slap around a sap.

The hack writer claims that he based Simmons’ character on a real music teacher, but that he “upped the intensity”. Yeah, into absurdity. And it’s telling that the writer is not earning his living as a musician, but as a sub-Esterhaus level hack.

I saw this film over the weekend as well, and it’s now my second favorite of the year, behind “Birdman.”

I loved the film – in my top three from last year, and so saw a lot of good ones – but I understand gaffa’s criticism. I thought ther same thing as I watched it – several of Simmons’ berating scenes could have been done in a less physical (but just as intense and scary) fashion.

I rationalized this by saying to myself tha the film was at least internally consistent. I think it all went back to the filmmaker’s decision to make the protagonist a DRUMMER – someone who creates music by constantly hitting things. Blood and violent, dynamic physical impacts (from the drummers’ hands, to Simmons’ slaps, to the car crash) just flowed from that decision.

Had it been about a flute player, we would have seen a lot of windy scenes… :wink:

Unfortunately, assholes use this excuse to justify their bad behavior. “You have to be an asshole to accomplish things.” No, you can accomplish things without being an asshole - plenty of people do it. Some people just choose to be an asshole while accomplishing things.

Q: What’s the difference between a bull and a jazz band?

A: With a bull, the horns are in the front and the asshole is in the back.

I liked the movie, but I thought it would have been better if Fletcher (the J.K. Simmons character) had been less extreme. He’s such an abusive jerk that it’s sort of cartoonish.

Also, I’m not a fan of the type of musicianship (drumming or otherwise) that won Fletcher’s respect at the end of the movie. To me it’s a bunch of show-off bullshit. I suppose it had to be that way for the sake of the movie - it couldn’t end with Andrew tastefully leading the band in a jam session.

BTW, in real life Jo Jones did throw a cymbal in Charlie Parker’s direction. He didn’t throw it at Parker’s head - he threw it so it landed at Parker’s feet.

There were a few points where I thought “gee, Fletcher really is a complex character” – being nice to the little girl, crying over the story of his former student. But when he reveals that he set up the drummer to fail out of revenge, then: yeah, he’s a complete jerk.

But not so jerkish that he doesn’t recognize the drummer’s talent at the end. The director needed to show (visually, musically) that he has broken through and become a special talent, earning Fletcher’s respect, and the only way to do that is with a ridiculously long drum solo.

The wife and I saw it last night and loved it. I have to say though, any teacher like that in real life ought to be in jail, for assault if nothing else.

I figured at the end – and I’m not sure how much of a spoiler this is, but I’ll box it to be safe:

Fletcher recognized Andrew’s talent and figured one of two things would happen at the end of that Carnegie performance, either one fine by him: He’d have had his revenge; or he’d have created another music legend

My chief impression of the movie is that it is an apologia for foul-mouthed, Type A assholes. They are only trying to get the rest of us to give our best!

No doubt Hollywood power brokers will love the message.

Exactly my take on it, too.

Plus how many geniuses really were discouraged by peole throwing dangerous objects at them. For every Bird, you might have 10 who said, “Ah, fuck this! Ain’t worth the grief.”

I assume the kid didn’t do his own drumming.

I really loved the film and I didn’t see it as an apologetic for Letcher’s bullying - at no point when he was trying to justify his abuse did I think, “Well, he has a point.” He tried to justify it and probably believed it but he failed.

The kid was an a-hole too, though, to his family and girlfriend and band mates. Self-entitled prick. I didn’t like him either.

Not too many movies can be so enjoyable with such dislikeable characters aside from Paul Reiser.

Jerks rationalize their behavior all the time. Fletcher is just plain cruel. His claim that he was making great musicians was just a smoke screen. It was part of his game. He used the lure of fame to keep his students around so he could abuse them more.

He would actually be surprised if any of them turned out to be great. Hence the ending. (Which IMHO was a crappy cop out.)

Things to note:

He had a poor grip on the truth. Hence the story of the former student who was great and died in an accident that turned out to be false.

Also, the story he retold about Charlie Parker and the cymbal is false. Not sure if Fletcher was supposed to know it was false, but I’m betting he knew it.

Since these music students weren’t going to really go anywhere, there should be no expectation of greatness for all of them. Hence no need to abuse all of them even if one assumed that the technique of abuse actually helped.

Just a lot of standard abusive authority figure crap. Encouraging talent had nothing to do with it.

It was like a remake of The Paper Chase. With jazz.