Same here. Maybe it is a regional thing. Or maybe it happened more in the past.
<obvious joke>It certainly happened more in *my *past</joke>
If you haven’t heard or seen men whistling at women, I’m gonna guess that you’re a man, or else you get out even less than I do.
Let’s not let this escalate, folks. MeanOldLady I know you are responding to what you believe to be a bogus statement by TriPolar but this thread has room for the opinions of each participant.
Call me crazy, but maybe we — everyone in this thread — can approach this with restraint and maybe we can learn from one another instead of shouting one another down.
Just adding a voice to the chorus that this happens all the time- and it made me far more self conscious when it started regularly when I was about 13. I’m 27 now and it still happens. Heck, it literally happened last Saturday:
I was heading over to my friend’s house to do her makeup for a wedding, but first needed to stop at the drugstore and pickup some makeup remover wipes (like baby wipes, but for makeup). As soon as I grabbed what I needed, I noticed a man staring me down from across the aisle- I didn’t make eye contact quite intentionally, but as I walked by with my head down, he let out an embarrassingly loud wolf whistle. I’ve learned that you can’t win in these situations regardless of how you react, so I decided to give him nothing- I walked by him without even remotely acknowledging his nonsense. After I strode by him he said, “Wow, bitch. I was just trying to say hi!”
He leaves. I wait in line, pay, and head out of the store— only to find he’s standing right outside the door, sort of in the shadow of the building so I didn’t notice him until he started again, “Dumb ass bitch. Up tight bitch. Can’t fucking say hi. Can’t take a compliment. Fat bitch.” I walked to my car, he stayed about 10 paces behind me, muttering about what a bitch I was. I got in my car and drove off— but I also had my cell phone in my hand, with “9-1” dialed and ready to go if he wouldn’t move.
That? That’s not an unusual experience. Certainly it’s rarely quite that bad with the following, but that was a damned week ago at 11 AM on a Saturday afternoon while my fat ass was wearing shorts, a tshirt, no makeup, and had my hair flung on top of my head in a messy pony tail. It happens.
An article that I found yesterday that is absolutely relevent to this discussion but also totally amazing is this, Female Purity is a Myth (on Jezebel). Namely, this part:
In my limited experience, words are more common than whistles. ‘‘Hey sexy lady’’ or whatever. And yes, if you ignore that, the very least you are going to get is a guilt trip laid on you for being so mean. ‘‘Aww, come on, honey, don’t be that way.’’ Etc.
And I don’t think they only do it to solitary females because they are trying to express dominance. I think they hide it around other men because they don’t want to get the shit beat out of them by hitting on someone’s girlfriend. Or in the very least, because the man’s presence means she is ‘‘spoken for,’’ and that’s part of their weird code of honor.
Of course, I’ve had men tell me I was outright lying when I told them I was married. Then I would either get accused of making it up or they would say something like, ''Then why are you out here all by yourself?" As if I were somehow obligated to be joined at the hip of my husband every second of every day so that they wouldn’t street-harass a married person.
I don’t think these men are trying to be deliberately agressive. I think they honestly think this is how you’re supposed to interact with a woman. Their understanding of ‘‘woman’’ is usually pretty narrow. There are women that encourage this behavior, and we know from behavioral psychology that the best way to reinforce a behavior is to provide only intermittent reward. Like rats in a cage, they will keep on pressing that lever because occasionally, oh-so-occasionally, a treat will pop out.
I’ve seen it pretty often, mostly from guys in groups who then have more courage.
And if the woman doesn’t respond in a favorable way, it’s not uncommon for the guy to then disrespect her for the laughs. Yes, it is contradictory in a ridiculous way, seeing as how he was just showing “interest”, but people can be shallow like that.
To note, this happened far more often on public transit, and especially among younger groups, but it also happens when people drive by in cars, and a few other circumstances. I don’t know that it’s regional, per say, but there are definitely some areas where it can be more prevalent than others.
To me, it’s the adult equivalent of a boy going up to a girl at play time and proclaiming that she has cooties.
Thanks Ellen.
And to everyone else, I am considering what you are saying. My experiences are not the experiences of a woman, and I can learn from you. I’m sorry for getting drawn into argument mode, it’s never really productive, and in this thread and with this subject it isn’t fun either.
I just want to make the point that what men do in front of other men is sometimes different from what they do when they are alone, or when they are with women. And, as a woman, I find it pretty insulting when a man says “oh, I can’t believe this is so, you must be bringing it on yourself, because I’ve never seen this happen.” Even though several women have said that it’s happened to them, too. I can accept that many men would never dream of whistling at a stranger. But to be told that I’m lying, or I must be somehow provoking an additional outburst of “BITCH!”…well, I don’t know why I bother. I mean, other women have said that this happens. I can dig up more links to show that it happens. But apparently one man has decided that since he, personally, wouldn’t do it, and he’s never seen it happen, that it doesn’t happen.
One of the nicer things about being middle aged, fat, and gray haired is that I no longer get whistles and catcalls. No, I don’t miss this at all. It’s a relief. I’ve had more than enough whistles and catcalls to last me for the rest of my life.
I’ll reword. “Well that isn’t rational behavior, so I don’t believe that it happens” is frankly silly. It’s even sillier than believing you somehow know what women experience because you’ve never seen what they’re describing happen. Of course you haven’t. That would be like my boyfriend saying he doesn’t believe I get hit on because he’s never seen it. Well duh, they back off when he’s around. Similarly, they’re more prone to behaving like a jackass toward you when they’re alone than with a group of friends. Men behave differently when it’s one-on-one than they do when other people are around. And by “differently,” I mean “more jackassily.”
Is getting angry at a woman who’s ignored you and called her names a logical thing to do? Of course not, but “I don’t believe it because that would be an odd way to behave” is absurd. We’re talking about the kinds of guys who are stupid enough to whistle at someone in the first place. Not bright characters and not surprising that they continue with their stupid behavior when their first act of idiocy fails.
Nope. Got noted last time.
Where have any women here claimed to be experts on, I don’t know, jock itch?
Most whistling I experienced came from groups of men–generally when I was walking down an uncrowded street. Was it just a little homosocial male bonding–or a prelude to something more rude?
Yes, an improper response to a whistle can cause escalation. How dare I be such a stuck up bitch?
If you know any women, ask them what they think.
By the way, I don’t find this to be a fun topic. I especially don’t think it’s fun to be told that my experiences are worthless and/or untrue. Remembering some of the instances when I was threatened because I didn’t act flattered because some guy whistled at me brings up some scary memories. I think it’s an IMPORTANT topic, though. Sure, some guys probably think that a whistle is a compliment. But that’s not how many men mean it, and it’s not how many women will perceive it, and I think that if a man whistles at a woman, he should know just what sort of baggage that whistle carries with it.
I have no doubt that it happens. The linked CNN article says a CDC survey concluded that it happens to about 1/3 of women sometime in their lifetime. I can imagine it happens to some women more than others based upon their physical appearance, location, etc. Even though is not right, a young woman in a cute red dress is going to get it more than the homeless lady dressed as a lumberjack.
I have heard (therefore it must be true) that certain ethnicities do it more than others. In certain cultures it is just more acceptable. That is the beauty of multiculturalism!
This doesn’t exactly happen to me every day like it does for other women, but in all honesty I can’t remember ever being whistled at once - and then nothing else happened. It has always turned into some kind of awkward situation where I was supposed to prove I wasn’t a bitch. And really that’s why it bothers me so much, not because I feel ‘‘victimized’’ but because I end up having to do these social gymnastics to both not make the guy feel rejected and make it clear I’m not interested.
I try to be nice to strangers, and I can’t tell you how many times that has been mistaken for sexual interest. It’s very awkward. I once gave some change to some guy at McDonald’s and an observer started announcing, very loudly, that he had found the perfect woman. I get it, he was attracted to my kindness, that’s flattering. But he never actually said anything to me at all, he was just shouting all this stuff about me - describing my physical appearance, calling me an ‘‘angel’’ laying it on really thick. Until i tried to pretend I didn’t hear him, in which case he got angry.
So then it was like, ‘‘Great, everyone here thinks I’m a bitch, and all I was trying to do was give some dude change.’’
Because I shit you not - some guys, if you are nice to them, will start hitting on you, and then when they find out you are married (which is my go-to excuse because it usually ends things) they get really irritated, like you were leading them on. And they demand to see the ring. True story.
In certain countries in Latin America it is pretty much a social expectation. I have a friend who did Peace Corps in the Dominican Republic and she got it all the time. A lot of women in those cultures are completely used to it, but if you have never had the experience of being whistled at everywhere you go, it is really unnerving.
Machismo is a pretty big issue in those countries, too. Generally, the more misogynistic the culture, the more common it is.
Bolding mine
That is where you went wrong. Nobody there thought you were a bitch. Most of the people thought that guy was a jerk. Yes, some guys are socially awkward well, some people are socially awkward and if you are nice to them, they want to marry you because they’ve never had people be nice to them.
It’s sad really.
Did I tell y’all about the time when I was in the car with some dude while making a catcall at a woman on the street, and then he expressed annoyance at her lack of proper response? Yeah, in the middle of him shouting at her I cut him off with, “What are you doing?” And then he remarked something about her having a problem and asked in dead-ass seriousness if I didn’t take it as a compliment if some dude told me I looked fine. No! I mean yes, but not like that. Don’t shout shit at me from car windows, you idiot. That’s not a compliment. It doesn’t make me feel good about myself; it makes me think less of you. It just makes me think you’re the kind of guy who tugs at his junk in public. You know, a creepy loser.
Don’t even go there! I mean, it’s true, and I certainly do get different *kinds *of catcalls from different ethnicities. If I hear kissy noises when I walk by, for example, I don’t even have to look up. It’s a Hispanic dude. NO ONE ELSE does that shit. I vacationed in Jamaica with a friend from Suburbia, USA, and she was all out shocked that men there were pretty free with their street harassment. She felt like she had to respond to it. I’m like, “Dude, just ignore it.”
Also, olives, you’re too nice. Stop being nice to people. If some guy calls you or treats you like a bitch for not baking him a cake when he whistles at you on the street, give absolutely zero fucks, skip the “social gymnastics,” and make no effort to prove you’re a nice person. Don’t even explain why you’re rejecting him. I try to be nice when rejecting someone I’ve had contact with (like a date I’d rather not see again, or a friend of a friend who’s trying to parlay that connection into a date), but some random whose butt is hurt because his whistling/catcalling wasn’t responded to favorably? Let him go fuck himself.
That reminded me that I’ve been shouted at and, uh, hooted at by all manner of men, but the only people who have ever hissed at me were black men. The first time that happened, I didn’t know WTF was going on and thought it was some steam escaping behind me. I was so confused when it turned out to be a bunch of guys.
Can we say this again? We ignore catcalls and whistles because even when we’re in a safe environment and not intimidated or insulted because we can’t take a chance on responding kindly to that kind of come-on. A positive response will almost certainly be misinterpreted by the kind of guy who whistles at strangers.
Not trying to be a bitch at all, but I’m just going to the post office, not trolling construction workers at a bar for a date. Also, just because I’m alone doesn’t mean I don’t have a significant other. Random strange guy can tell me I have a pretty dress or a nice smile, I’ll say thanks and smile. He could probably tell me that when I’m with my husband, but he won’t, will he? Whistle, catcall, or tell me I have a nice <body part>, I’m going to look at the ground, quicken my pace, and put distance between myself and the aggressor, because I don’t know if he’ll keep it up, cuss me, follow me, or lay in wait like DiosaBellissima’s dude. It’s not the worst thing that can happen in a day, and most of the time it can be ignored with no further incident. But just to be crystal clear: it’s more likely to be a mildly startling bummer than flattering.