Not fatalistic at all. I’m actually quite encouraged by the amount of legal progress and social awareness.
But I am reading today a conversation which I have participated in as much as four decades ago. And I hear the same level of anger and confusion which I heard and experienced then. That part is discouraging. I would have hoped for more progress by now.
The conclusion I’ve come to is I suspect you can’t legislate healthy, respectful sexual interaction between the sexes - only legally forbid certain behaviors and provide consequences for them.
It has to be learned over again, through experience, by each new generation. Hopefully their elders are role-modeling it for them and they are taking advantage of all the awareness available to them. And then making the changes. Because awareness alone isn’t enough.
The reason the learning has to be generational is biological/hormonal. We don’t arrive with built-in social knowledge. And everybody knows where our brains go when those first surges of hormones kick in. Hence my facetious statement about altering our biology. It was a sci-fi joke thinking about how future generations might decide to deal with it.
People haven’t changed very much since we have existed. We still want attention and sexual satisfaction and some can be selfish/crude about it even though the rules have changed.
Well, okay, but so does proper vehicular operation and efficient business management and not grabbing your brother’s Legos away from him while he’s still using them and pretty much every other social behavior that you can think of. More to the point, it hasn’t been all that long since this kind of behavior has started being discussed and socially discouraged.
Compared to how it was in earlier days, I’d actually expect to see more anger coming whistlers’ way now that whistle recipients no longer feel socially obligated to respond politely to problematic behavior (or defense of such behavior, or even the outright denial of the existence of such behavior)… and if anything, I see that open anger as a sign of progress.
I live in an area of nearly a million people. I’ve yet to witness men whistling at women. I witness some men doing some neck turning or prolonged staring that would make women uncomfortable. But yet to hear hoots, hollering and whistling. I’m sure it happens on the strip in my city where all the young drunks gather on the weekend, but that isn’t surprising.
I was hollered at last summer by a passing car full of women while jogging, it may of been a compliment. Not sure I had my ipod on. Regardless it didn’t ruin my summer, month, week or day.
And cue the 4 billionth response of why it doesn’t bother a man, when its happened once in a lifetime, versus women, when it can routinely happen daily.
I’ll respond to some of these posts over time. First, I was in a back and forth with colander which made me overstate some things. I do not, nor ever intended to imply that woman are responsible for any insults that follow a whistle. In fact I don’t think acknowledging such behavior is a good idea in any circumstance (save someone you know in an approriate situation, which I assume is not at issue here).
I never should have implied that any woman lacked credibility on this issue, and I apologize for doing so, even to colander.
The big thing for me to consider is how prevalent this seems to be based on what I’m hearing here. It doesn’t conform to my experiences, and it would be impossible for me to have the experiences in this area that women do. Based on another post that mentions that men may be doing this when they are alone (or possibly only with close buddies around) does sound like the behavior of men in other aspects. A lot of men are cowards, and I think it likely my experiences at various times don’t show the situation because cowards are afraid of being seen.
What I should have realized is that it’s probably impossible for women to totally ignore this behavior if it’s happening so often. Even if you react in no way at all, enough women probably have that certain kinds men aren’t even looking for a reaction. The men that I do know have done this kind of thing (beyond the dumb crude concept of a compliment) are looking for attention in some unhealthy way. And it’s kind of a dumb thing I’ve thought from the start because I doubt men are very successful in attracting, or picking up, or even getting to know a woman through this approach. If it were successful I might even have tried it myself as a young man, but it’s always been obvious that it’s not. What I’m hearing from yours and other experiences reminds me a great deal of bullying behavior. And in this context I can understand how this bothers you a great deal.
I will start from the beginning now and say that if a man whistles at you and then walks away it may just be a compliment. But if this kind of followup behavior is common then it is a serious issue. Some old guy who thinks this is not serious behavior and has no bad intentions may not be the likely circumstance at all. And as I said it sounds like bullying, and I don’t tolerate that.
I’m going to keep my eyes and ears more widely open from now on. I don’t think it’s the kind of behavior that should be accepted in any way anymore. I’ve never engaged in this kind of behavior myself, but not because I realized how serious a simple whistle may be perceived by a woman, and after this thread I don’t think I can even let that pass anymore, save for some situations not worth discussing here.
As a note, I have whistled at women as a compliment, women I knew, in an appropriate situation. I don’t think whistling a woman I know who has dolled herself up to look good was ever more than a compliment from me, but let me know if I should reconsider that as well.
Not being a practitioner of the wolf whistle, as I read this thread I realize that it’s a difficult 2-note song to do. I come off sounding like this poor guy,.
For what it’s worth, I can’t think of a single time I’ve ever been offended at a obviously silly wolf whistle from even a plutonic friend. If we’ve got a good existing relationship, I can’t imagine responding to that with anything other than laughter. And appreciating the intended compliment.
The issue, of course, is when we don’t have a preexisting relationship and you wolf whistle at me. That’s a problem.
I recommend a slide whistle for efficient and effective broadcasting of your creeper status. If you attach it to a lanyard, it can be worn around the neck at all times for quick and easy access when needed.
