And I also realized–belatedly–that I just have to respond to Sionnach’s attempt to use the story of Abram and Lot to prove that cultures ought to be kept separate.
Abram and Lot were an uncle and nephew who disagreed about grazing rights–they had the SAME culture, and bringing them up to prove that cultures ought to be kept separate in order to prevent “endless riots and tension” is just stupid.
Which, of course, is why such multicultural (And multi “racial”) societies as China and Egypt survived for thousands of years and the multi “cultural” Byzantine Empire survived for 1,000 years.
I have seen no evidence provided by you that immigrants are failing to assimilate. They eat hamburgers, buy and drive cars, learn to speak English and send their kids to U.S. colleges, watch American TV, root for American sports teams, and generally behave like the rest of us. The American culture is changing (as it has every decade since 1776), but it is not going away, whatever you would like to pretend.
Sionnach, may I offer an observation? You seem to have adopted your philosphy based on the idea that your formative experiences were “typical.” The accumulated weight of evidence of other posters on this board, including myself, suggests otherwise.
I think you will find that western civilization is far more durable than you might imagine. In fact, one of the most common complaints of those who hate the United States is that western civilization is destroying their cultures. There may be some truth to this accusation, but it’s not a purposeful invasion – western culture just seems to be a highly virulent one.
Anyway, I’m sorry you had such traumatic experiences as a youth, but I think western civ will get along just fine without the, er, radical ideas you have for saving it.
Slight hijack-where are you from, cj?
I live in the same neck of the woods as you, right now, Guinastasia. Of course, if you insist on revealing my secret, I admit I am an immigrant, but from England, so apparently I’m the good kind.
CJ
Like a moth drawn to the candle I can’t help but come back…
No. No and No. You are not and they do not. You are not ‘middle class’ and the lower class hardly exists. You are lower middle class (explain why you would need a part time job otherwise) and as such you belong to the lower end of the bell curve in America. Lower class in its classical terms is more or less obsolete.
Your confusion is complete. I hereby invite you to come visit Europe. I will put you up. I will guide you. I will show you the best and the worst of this continent. To make you feel like your getting an unbiased view. I can arrange tours by the neo-Nazis as well - as long as you guarantee me 50% of your time. Just say so and I will make arrangements so that we can get in touch in such manner as to initiate an exchange that would not compromise our mutual need for privacy and developing trust.
Not that simple. I could explain, but you wouldn’t get it. I repeat my invitation and emphasize that it is serious and for real. If you want to see Europe I can take you in. As I said I can make sure you get the White Nationalist tour as well as mine. You are deeply mistaken and deluded as regards what Europe and being European is all about. You should check it out.
Sparc
Conquered by force hundreds of years ago. The majority of the territory now belongs to US/Canada.
When people cannot get along in one place, they should separate instead of being forced to integrate. Liberals want everyone to be forced to integrate, no matter how much the people don’t get along. I think they should be allowed to seperate.
You’re trying to pass China off as some diverse place of multiracial harmony? Isn’t that the place where Tibetans were kicking up a storm about self-determination for their people and getting oppressed by the Chinese about it?
Egypt: Total rule by Pharoahs and Kings, who were ligher skinned than the Israelites and black slaves they ruled over. Hmm… African slaves…
“Sesostrus I, a XIIth dynasty king of the 20th century B.C., conquered parts of Nubia and established a barrier at the border to ensure that no black would enter Egypt except as a slave. Egyptians regarded blacks as indolent and superstitious but nevertheless favored them as slaves because they were affectionate and faithful. They found blacks to have a very good sense of rhythm but wrote derisively of their constant dancing.” -
What Race Were the Pharaohs?
A.A. Sayce & R. Peterson, Race in Ancient Egypt & the Old Testament,
Doesn’t sound very racially egalitarian to me!
Byzantine Empire - Mostly Greek people with a strong sense of cultural identity which united them. The Church was the backbone of the empire. Conquered by Muslims (!!).
Location: N E Ohio
http://www.censusscope.org/us/s39/chart_race.html
Lol… there aren’t even enough mexicans in your state to fill a town. Your state is over 80% white. I guess it’s easy for you to think that all the immigrants are assimilating when you barely have any around.
What does the accumulated weight of “evidence” by a couple multiculturalists on a leftist forum mean? Nothing. There are piles of anecdotal evidence to support my view on WN boards and even Libertarian or Conservative boards, and even non-politically oriented boards that cater to any view. This is predictable, since my view on immigration is more mainstream than the “open-borders” folks, who are usually pampered university folks or non-white themselves. Of course, anecdotal evidence on biased boards doesn’t mean much alone, but my personal experience leads me to trust other boards before a few posters here. For all I know, most of you live in majority white-upper/middle class suburbs and only venture into “multicultural” areas to have a latte, or incubate yourselves in a University.
It’s Time to Deal With the
High Cost of Immigration
More on immigration -
starts humming. Yeah, Glenn Miller…
What’s with your obsession with telling me who I am? Are you spying on me outside my window with a telescope? Pretty strong telescope that can reach from Europe to Canada. You’re not only trying to tell me what my family’s income level is, but you’re trying to tell me that there is no lower class. LoL… cute. Pushy liberals aren’t happy with just dictating how everyone should live, they have to bend reality while they’re at it.
My family is middle class. My parents were middle class. My extended family is middle class. My in-laws are middle class. I have to get a part-time job because my husband and I bought a house and want to get the payments over ASAP, but don’t want a full-time job because I need time for housekeeping and cooking.
Why don’t you just explain it? Explain why anti-immigration parties are gaining support if everyone loves multiculturalism. I’d love to hear it. I’m sure you have some wonderful excuses, such as “they’re racists” and “they’re deluded”.
Nope. I’m pointing out that despite a lot of disharmony, their society and culture have survived for thousands of years.
Based on the excerpt you posted of the book on Egypt and the review from which it was taken, Sayce and Peterson are not particularly well-educated in anthropology, as I noted several errors in the description of Egypt that was attributed to them. (Sayce was a linguist who died about 70 years ago and his depictions of “race” match the expectations of the time.) This subject came up about two years ago on the SDMB and we were provided lots of information regarding the fact that the inhabitants of the Lower and Upper Nile frequently intermingled and occasionally conquered each other, but that there was no single upper caste that ruled throughout their 2,500 year civilization. (And the notion that the rulers were always “fair” and the slaves always “dark” is simply a lie, as many of the paintings demonstrate.)
(The publisher, Scott-Townsend, specializes in reprinting old books that have been superseded by better scholarship if the older book happened to lay out nice, racist claims. I have been unable to find any support for their strange racial beliefs, although Sayce is usually accorded some respect for his efforts in language)
Your assumption displays your ignorance. I grew up around Pontiac, MI and have had various associations with the migrant workers in Capac, MI. I am quite familiar with Anglo-Hispanic tensions–and the fact that the Mexican immigrants are great people who are becoming more “American” each year.
On the other hand, while Ohio has a lot of open farmland that is pretty pale, the Cleveland area is a magnet to a rather large group of immigrants from more than one region of the world. They often live in enclaves near each other, but they are, indeed, working hard to become Americanized as swiftly as possible.
Okay, why are we even bothering trying to talk to this person? The only reason s/he is here on our “leftist forum” is because we’re offering a free platform for the anti-immigration spewing. And–look!-- now we’ve even got the Kukulkon-style posting of links to vdare and american patrol.
Could we talk to Kukulkon? No. Can we talk to this one? No.
Feh. :rolleyes: If we’re so hopeless, why are you bothering with us?
Answer–because we’re giving you lots and lots of attention.
Well, not me, not any more. Wallow in it all by yourself, dearie, and best of luck with the Immigrant Hordes. :rolleyes:
Sparc,
I wanna go to Europe. If I pretend to be a racist, can I go? I dont have to shave my head do I? I mean, I have the docs already, and I could probably get a flight jacket somewhere…
Sionnach, why is it okay that the European whites conquered Native Americans and came over here in droves years ago, but now it’s not okay that new immigrants come over here now? When was the dividing line between when immigration was okay and when it’s not?
And if you’re so proud of your being a white of European descent, why did you decide to make part of North America your home? Why not return to your roots?
As for your question:
Because it’s a free country, whether you like it that way or not.
Very well then. I am from Northern Virginia. I used to live in Arlington until I moved to Alexandria. Arlington County is about 25% Hispanic, not Mexican. The majority of immigrants were of Salvadoran descent. While the parents may have spoken broken English, the younger generations all spoke English. The great majority of the people I met while living there were pretty friendly.
Racial problems weren’t what caused the Empire to fall. There had been so much infighting and civil war that the Empire was weakened.
As to immigrants living in groups together, why is that so unusual. Didn’t the first generation Irish live in ethnic enclaves, didn’t the Italians do the same, as did the Poles, Russians, etc. etc.
Not true, my current neighborhood has a significant number of immigrants and African Americans. The immigrants come from all over the world.
BTW, with regards to the article that you cited, from what I could tell, none of those parties has gained anything close to a majority. As I recall, LePen only got around 20% of the vote.
Sparc can probably fill you in on this better than I can as he lives there.
Duck Duck Goose wrote:
Because she is wrong.
When you conquer a land by force, the people being invaded have the right to fight back. The AmerIndians had every right to fight back, and did. There were battles. They lost, however. When leaders allow a large group of people to enter your country and become a majority, they’re just giving your country away and you can’t even fight back. No battle, besides gang wars.
I was born here, and my family has lived here for generations, productively and law-abiding I might add.
If people don’t even have control of their own communities, that freedom is a farce. I respect the freedoms and wishes of the citizens and nativeborn people of the nation. You only care about the wishes and freedom of people who aren’t even citizens. I view immigration as a privilege that should only occur with respect to the present inhabitants. You view immigration as a right that must always happen, whether the present inhabitants want it or not. Forgive me for thinking that your point of view is rather pushy, IMHO.
Good for you. I come from a state where Mexicans are going to be the majority and made up a high population in just about every town. In every town, they acted the same. Obnoxious and more racist than I ever was.
Oh no… racial/cultural problems never lead to infighting and civil war. Think they would have been better off if they just imported so many Muslims that the Muslims formed a demographic majority and could take over the land without needing to go through that whole hassle of battling?
Unless they stop the current immigration trends, expect that number to drastically rise. Pim Fortuyn was getting pretty popular before he was shot by a deranged leftist, especially among the young 
Wow, that sure convinced me that multiculturalism works and will lead to peace, and prosperous strong nations! Well written out arguement there! How horrible I am to think that the wishes of the people in a community should be respected, and if they don’t want certain people moving in, the “movers” should go somewhere else!
As with so many other things, “[f]or all [you] know” is wrong. I currently live in an area that is very predominantly Mexican. In my current apartment complex (over 100 units), I think that my roommate and I represent about half of the white population here. And guess what? I have yet to see any roving Mexican street gangs, I’ve yet to get beat up by immigrant thugs, my apartment hasn’t been broken into, and I’ve even been aided by some of these folks on a couple of occassions. Imagine that!
I also hate latte and went to a very diverse university.
And for your continued edification and enlightenment:
Oh yes, before I go to bed. That book does state that they “comingled” and became more racially liberal … towards the end of the civilization. That doesn’t seem very promising.
City/state.
Night!
Show me a stronger, more prosperous nation than the U.S. Go on. I dare ya.
Would you then want the White Supremacist Tour, or the Leftist Afluent Suburbs Tour, or the combo package? If desired we can also arrange the Reality Tour, though it might be a little hard to digest if you take it while wearing that bomber and those DMs.
That reminds me of an anecdote from my year with the skinheads. I actually tried the image package for a week. Shaved the hair off. Borrowed a bomber, a pair of jeans with suspenders and the DMs (well I had the DMs already) - lo and behold I have never been that badly treated by ‘blacks’ and ‘browns’ - and for that matter lots of ‘white leftists’… strange, isn’t it? I almost cancelled my submersion experiment after a few days, but in the end I persevered the whole week. I’ll tell you that it was a relief the day I got out of that stuff and went back to my ‘normal’ style - albeit with very short hair. I later reversed the experiment with a couple of skins that I managed to convince to play along; it changed their views quite a bit.
Sparc