White Nationalism, Part II

[Darwin_s_Finch]

*Originally posted by Sionnach *
Culture is what springs from groups of people having the same faith, traditions, and values. When those groups of people are displaced by another group that has a completely different culture, the culture of the first group is radically subverted or disappears. If you flood Scotland with majority Somalis, it will turn into another Somalia and the culture of the Scots will fade away. On a massive scale, if the people in Western nations refuse to have enough children to replace themselves and their countries are flooded by people with very different values and traditions, the West will die out and become expanded territory for China, Mexico, and the Muslims.

Nice attempt at a dodge, however unsuccessful.

1. Who are your “own people”? Don’t say “white people” because you should be well aware by now that not all whites share the same cultures and beliefs.
2. What is your “[own] culture”? Don’t say “white cultutre” (or “Western culture”) because you should be well aware by now that not all whites (or Westerners, or even white Westerners) share the same cultures and beliefs.
3. How is your culture, whatever it is, being destroyed? Don’t even bring up immigrants or Jews, unless you can point to specific aspects of your culture that are being destroyed by them, and how.

See if you can do it this time without the handwringing about immigrant floods and the “won’t someone please think of the children?” hysteria.

**

…and every leftist I know makes it a personal hobby to delve into every perceived crime by the US.**

And every white nationalist I know is a neo-Nazi skinhead. What’s your point?

**

So far, can anyone give me one good reason why every white community should be flooded with non-whites til whites are a minority? Is it that you guys just believe in diversity for diversity’s sake, or that you think it’s a cute way to “get back at the white bigots”?**

It’s called respect for our fellow man, dear. Something which you lack. Remember that Bible you claim to be a guiding part of your ideology? Perhaps you could state the Greatest Commandment for us.

Not all white people are so fixated on their lily-whiteness that it becomes their core of their identity. As a result, it doesn’t matter to most what color their neighbors are, or what percentage of a demographic they make up.

**

Most Americans don’t want more immigration floods, but the pretentious liberals choose to not even respect their wishes and condescendingly have the opinion that their wishes should never be respected because “they don’t know what’s good for them”.**

As I said before, there are good cases to be made for restricting immigration. But those cases can’t be made by your and your ilk because your arguments do not center around facts, they center around color.

**

Violent culture clashes? Cool! German Christians in their own country being dominated by Muslim immigrants in the future? Groovy!**

Treating people like they are lesser beings, just because they come from a different country and have different skin color? Far out! Beating people to death because they disagree with your ideology, or just because they’re “different”? How enlightened!

**

Abram’s Solution to the Strife**

Say…wasn’t Abram a…Jew!? I thought they were, you know, rats and vermin…you mean they actually have ideas that you agree with?

[Guinastasia]

Ah, wait a minute-you said you come from Russian ancestry?

Do you realize that, 100 years ago, if you came here, you would have been spat upon, called one of those “dirty Ruskies” and you would certainly not have been thought of as white!

[Sionnach]

Teacher: African-Americans Most Poorly Behaved Students

Anyone ever consider that the reason they have a low “socio-economic” status is because they have absolutely no self-discipline?

[The_Flying_Dutchman]

*Originally posted by Darwin’s Finch *

Say…wasn’t Abram a…Jew!? I thought they were, you know, rats and vermin…you mean they actually have ideas that you agree with? **

[nitpick] Abram was multi ethnic actually, being the father of many nations. He was from the city of Ur in Iraq.[/nitpick]

[Sionnach]

Nice attempt at a dodge, however unsuccessful.

1. Who are your “own people”? Don’t say “white people” because you should be well aware by now that not all whites share the same cultures and beliefs.
2. What is your “[own] culture”? Don’t say “white cultutre” (or “Western culture”) because you should be well aware by now that not all whites (or Westerners, or even white Westerners) share the same cultures and beliefs.
3. How is your culture, whatever it is, being destroyed? Don’t even bring up immigrants or Jews, unless you can point to specific aspects of your culture that are being destroyed by them, and how.

See if you can do it this time without the handwringing about immigrant floods and the “won’t someone please think of the children?” hysteria.

How the hell can I explain how a culture is threatened without bringing up immigrants when immigrant floods are one of the main problems?

And every white nationalist I know is a neo-Nazi skinhead. What’s your point?

My point is that I assumed most of the people here knew that the US and it’s allies can violate international law whenever it pleases. International law = farce.

It’s called respect for our fellow man, dear. Something which you lack. Remember that Bible you claim to be a guiding part of your ideology? Perhaps you could state the Greatest Commandment for us.

Would it be respectful for white people to cram themselves into every inch of Japan and demand benefits and laws be changed to accomodate them?

Not all white people are so fixated on their lily-whiteness that it becomes their core of their identity. As a result, it doesn’t matter to most what color their neighbors are, or what percentage of a demographic they make up.

Oh yes, that’s it. It’s all color of skin… nothing else. There are no extreme cultural differences. How bigoted of me to get disgusted by FGM or have the silly notion that an area of Europe settled by large groups of Muslim fundamentalists might start to violently impose their version of the “will of allah” on the others when they become the majority through demographics change and high immigration. How silly of me to assume that mestizos will be trying to take over SW US for their own when they become the majority. How silly of me to not appreciate all the invigorating high crime rates that the diversity of the American Negro has to offer! I mean, that certainly has no basis in reality! It’s just skin color

As I said before, there are good cases to be made for restricting immigration. But those cases can’t be made by your and your ilk because your arguments do not center around facts, they center around color.

Straw man. It does not center around “color” at all. People here either repeatedly ignore every point I make, then say that it’s all about “color”, or they use the deconstructionist tactic and say that there is no culture to preserve just because Scots and Italians have their own uniqueness. No shit, they’re unique. And they are both threatened in the same ways if their countries are flooded with third-worlders.

Treating people like they are lesser beings, just because they come from a different country and have different skin color? Far out! Beating people to death because they disagree with your ideology, or just because they’re “different”? How enlightened!

I don’t treat anyone as “lesser beings” unless they conduct themselves as lesser beings. I know how to be polite, even though the only reason they’re here is because people of European descent happen to have the ability to build a thriving civilization that appeals to everyone around the world who are capable of nothing but mud huts or despotism. Of course everyone’s going to want to come mooch. When the people who built the civilization are gone, the countries will just degenerate into tribal bickering, riots and despotism, but who cares? We’ll have all kinds of cute little restaurants for all the rich cosmopolite yuppies to hang out in, and it will be “cool”.

As for beating people, when have I ever condoned that? The only “beatings” that occured in my life were done by mestizo gangs, one with fatal outcome.

Say…wasn’t Abram a…Jew!? I thought they were, you know, rats and vermin…you mean they actually have ideas that you agree with?

Abram has nothing to do with the Zionist creatures of today.

[The_Flying_Dutchman]

*Originally posted by Guinastasia *
**Ah, wait a minute-you said you come from Russian ancestry?

Do you realize that, 100 years ago, if you came here, you would have been spat upon, called one of those “dirty Ruskies” and you would certainly not have been thought of as white! **

Hey, 20 years ago, I met a German speaking Czech architect who described all Russians as typical of those people who pulled barges up the Volga from its banks.

[minty_green]

How the hell can I explain how a culture is threatened without bringing up immigrants when immigrant floods are one of the main problems?

That’s not even an attempt at a dodge. Answer the questions.

[minty_green]

Would it be respectful for white people to cram themselves into every inch of Japan and demand benefits and laws be changed to accomodate them?

And you are asserting that has happened in America? How? Where? Be specific, and no crying about welfare or other benefits that are available for everyone regardless of immigrant status. You’re whining about demands for special treatment–what are they?

(Actually, my recollection is that non-citizens are affirmatively disqualified from receiving many benefits that are available to citizens. Can anyone back me up on that?)

[tomndebb]

Anyone ever consider that the reason they have a low “socio-economic” status is because they have absolutely no self-discipline?

Sure. I considered it, briefly, until I realized that the evidence points the other direction. The issues of perceived self-discipline (or lack) are a direct result of the cultural aspects of the ghettoes in which they were forced to live (and in which many of them still find themselves.

One quote by one teacher in one school (based on his personal beliefs, not demonstrable data) does not make an effective argument to stigmatize an entire group.

[tomndebb]

Of course everyone’s going to want to come mooch.

Your persistent repeating of this statement does not make it true. As the link I provided, earlier, indicates, immigrants enhance the economy and provide more in taxes than they withdraw in aid.

[hansel]

I have some anecdotal evidence for Sionnach:

I work at a manufacturer in southern Wisconsin, where the unemployment rate is chronically low (~3%). When the rate gets that low, the only people available for manual, unskilled labour are those who are employable in principle only, meaning that they’re got chemical dependencies, or they’re just too stupid or lazy, or they’re mentally ill, or what-have-you. In other words, we have a hell of a time staffing the factory with people who will actually show up on time and do what they’re paid to do, and stay at that job for any length of time.

A couple years ago, we made arrangements for Spanish speaking supervisors to be concentrated on certain shifts so we could employ Mexican immigrants with poor English skills; overnight, our problems disappeared. The Mexicans showed up in large numbers, solving our labour shortage, and they worked a hell of a lot harder than many of the white people doing the same jobs. I know: I worked on injection molding machines with them, and I had trouble keeping up. They busted ass and didn’t complain; in fact, the only complaints were from some of the white employees, who were worried they would be held to the same standard of effort and diligence.

We have an incentive program based on productivity, and the Spanish-speaking shifts consistently get the highest bonuses.

[To be clear about a couple things: our Mexican employees are legal, they’re paid the same, and they’re eligible for the same benefits. Our labour costs went down because the Mexicans are more productive, not because we treated them any differently than any other employee.]

It makes sense when you think about it. Take two guys showing up for one job. One is available because, as a local in a job market with very low unemployment, he doesn’t have a job. The other travelled around 3,000 miles to find a decent job in a safe environment. Who do you think will be the better employee?

So, Sionnach, how do you explain that in terms of racial or culteral superiority?

[Siege]

OK, I’ll be honest. Sionnach, people who share your views frighten me because a immigrant kid, I spent a fair amount of my childhood getting beat up by people who shared your views.

I’ve got three questions for you.

1. How do White Nationalists feel about the handicapped?
2. Are you familiar with the cultural situation in Hawaii, and, if so, what do you think of it? To expound on the latter, Hawaii is the only state in the USA in which whites are a minority and have always been. Most people in the state are multi-racial.

CJ

[Sionnach]

You guys crack me up. You want all the answers of the world to be censored of any mention of race just because the idea of racial differences offends you. How can any problems involving race be solved if you can’t talk about race (unless referring to ‘oppression’)? How can you grasp the big picture of the problems of immigration if you can’t talk about cultural differences and demographics issues? How can one talk about a nation being threatened by radical shifts in demographics if you can’t talk about immigration?

My culture is white middle class culture, which is the same whether in US or Canada. The white middle class is burdened with taxes because of all this crap, and the white lower class has to deal with all the violence and loss of jobs that immigration brings. Both are threatened, but the lower class tends to see the problem before the rest because they can’t afford to flee to a suburb and pretend to be “multicultural” in their gated upper class neighborhood or university like so many liberals do.

“White” is a convenient term for the various people of european ancestry, who made America and Canada what it was before the present decline. White nationalism is an alliance of all those people of european ancestry who don’t like seeing their countries destroyed by mooches and don’t like the idea of being a minority in the country that their ancestors built just because some liberals think it’s “cool” to try out the “multicultural” experiment and business guys think it’s nifty to take advantage of the cheap labor because they are so rich that they don’t have to deal with the consequences of immigration floods. They can afford gated suburbs and private schools, so why should they care?

Liberals are so cute. They can sit around and chant “diversity is strength” as whites move out of “multicultural” communities and states in droves. California used to be the place everyone wanted to go, and now whites are practically fleeing out of the state because most of it is a crappy place to live and raise a family now.

Multicultural nations will not survive in the long term. They’ll be paralyzed into constant non-action because of conflicting ethnic/religious groups rivaling each other. Politicians will be (are already, I should say) reduced to making embarrassing spectacles of themselves to pander to every little ethnic group. As soon as there is an economic crisis, everyone will be at each other’s throats. If the nation is threatened by another aggressive nation, it will be a sitting duck because of all the infighting and dual-loyalties. Think if Chinese flood Russia, that those Chinese will fight back much if China seeks to expand it’s borders on Russian territory? Think the US will fight back much if Mexico wants to annex California and the majority of Americans are mestizos with strong nationalist ties to Mexico? Will European nations fight back if threatened by expansionist Islamic regimes in the future if a huge section of it’s population happens to be Muslim fundamentalist?

There will be none of the national unity in a “multiculturalist” nation that is required to become strong and get through hard times and national threats. The “nation” will just tear itself apart from within. Nations that European people built will collapse while other nations who lie in wait will just pick up the leftover pieces. What will they do with the minority pockets of white Europeans still left that haven’t breeded themselves out? Who knows… confiscate property and kill them off? Forceful conversion to Islam? Based on what I see around the world in the present, non-white nations are not even close to as “tolerant” as the Europeans and North Americans who are slitting their own throats.

Poll after poll, people want less immigration or restricted immigration. Anti-immigrant parties in Europe are rising and gaining more support even though the media hates them. Sometimes I have the strange feeling that the only reason Liberal elites love immigration so much is because non-whites are the only stable voting base they will have as more and more whites get fed up with their BS.

ïðîùàíèå !

[minty_green]

Yes, we know what you believe. The question is whether you have any rational basis for those beliefs. Your inability or refusal to answer our inquiries reveals you do not. Have fun on your ashheap.

[Sionnach]

I really have to take off, but since you asked respectfully I’ll answer.

1. How do White Nationalists feel about the handicapped?

We feel fine about the handicapped.

2. Are you familiar with the cultural situation in Hawaii, and, if so, what do you think of it? To expound on the latter, Hawaii is the only state in the USA in which whites are a minority and have always been. Most people in the state are multi-racial.

I’ve talked to a guy from Hawaii and he can’t stand all the anti-white discrimination and nepotism by the asians/filipinos. He also said that many of the non-whites treat whites very disrespectfully and get away with it. This guy wasn’t a WN, by the way.

[Kal]

*Originally posted by Sionnach *
Anti-immigrant parties in Europe are rising and gaining more support even though the media hates them.

I think you’ll find that, not only the European media but also Western European governments are quite blatant in their dislike for immigration. Depending, of course, on the ethnicity of the immigrants.

Cough Gypsies Cough

[Darwin_s_Finch]

Thank you for your time, Sionnach. You have provided ample evidence that, as minty states, you are unable to provide any factual evidence for your beliefs.

Is immigration increasing? Yes. No one denies that. Are there problems that can, and do come with such immigration? Yes. Again, no one denies that. What we have tried to get through to you, and which you are completely unable (not even unwilling, but unable) to grasp, is that these problems are independent of color or culture.

You failed to comment on my post wherein I stated the following:

See, you seem to have a very difficult time of your own digesting a couple simple facts:

1. Correlation does not equate to causation.
2. Averages do not translate to specifics.

The converse of both of those points are the logical foundations (such as they are) of the entire WN / skinhead / neo-Nazi / whatever-the-hell-you-want-call-yourselves movement. Every one of your arguments is rooted in one of those two fallacies.

Every post you have made prior to that one, and since, has only underscored that those two statements do, indeed, represent the “logical” core of your beliefs. And that is why you fail to convince anyone here.

And, for the record I am by no means a liberal. I am of the personal opinon that a nice ELE-sized asteroid striking the earth would provide a much-needed dose of humility to our species. So do not labor under the impression that I am some sort of bleeding heart. I just think your arguments, such as they are, are crap.

[Duck_Duck_Goose]

I’d love to see these people…live [in] their own sovereign nation…

I also think that AmerIndians should have their own sovereign nation on some land of their own without any meddling or welfare from ours.

They HAVE their own sovereign nation.

It’s called North America.

:rolleyes: Go read a history book.

[Duck_Duck_Goose]

It’s also becoming abundantly clear that this person is only here to rant about immigration, not to have a civilized debate. She consistently refuses to respond to our questions, merely returning with more packaged rhetoric.

So the question is, how long are we going to keep this up, how long are we going to go on responding to her, giving her a platform for her spouting?

Me, I think I’m about done…

[Siege]

Curious. I lived in Hawaii for 7 years. Hawaii was not discovered by white men until 1776, after the United States had become an independent nation. Therefore, by your logic, white people have no business being there.

Also, your friend’s experiences there do not match mine. Then again, I wouldn’t expect them to. There is a Hawaiian separatist movement; I suspect they have a great deal in common with the White Nationalist movement, including being about as well thought of by their respective populations. In my experience, Hawaii has achieved a remarkable blending of cultures which is welcoming to most people, racists being the obvious exception. People work hard, pay taxes, and yes, even there, grumble about immigration.

It’s a funny thing about immigration. It seems to me that as soon as people are settled in a place for a while, they start wanting to shut other people out. In the U.S., this could be the descendents of English immigrants complaining about how Irish or Slovakian immigrants shouldn’t be allowed, or, a few generations later, the descendents of Irish, Slovakian, or Russian immigrants complaining about how the Mexicans or the Laotians or the Vietnamese should not be allowed. In my mainland hometown, it’s people who move to it complaining about new housing developments 5 years after they moved into their house in a brand new housing development.

One hundred years ago, Irish and Italian immigration was seen as a threat to the United States because Catholics would destroy America’s Protestant culture. In fact, there was some concern about a Catholic president putting America under the command of the Pope. I suspect your fears about today’s immigrants are just as invalid.

Oh, and as for the oppression of white middle and working class people, I’d say that’s at least as due to white upper class executives receiving outrageous pay while cutting jobs. Also, one hundred years ago, the working class was significantly more oppressed. Then again, they were mostly immigrants, so I suppose they don’t matter.

CJ