That’s Booker’s problem right now, Obama’s looks with Hillary’s political instincts. He’s got to start doing something besides not offending anyone.
I am amused that the people who think that Mrs Clinton calling a large number of people “deplorables” was a big error and made the needless enemies are so blind that they think the turning around and doing to the same time to the Muslims is a Great Thing - because the Other…
It is the same error.
And it shouldn’t. Trump is a buffoon, a transparent scamster, a “man-baby”. Pence is an astute political operator with a fine tuned agenda of Tea Party rhetoric who describes himself as “a Christian, a conservative, and a Republican, in that order.” Pence may likely end up driving the executive office while Trump busies himself leeching public funds into his “blind trust”. And unlike Trump, Pence is smart and principled enough to not get himself into an ethical quandary that would justify impeachment even if the Senate would vote for it.
Kaine seems to have been selected primarily for the quality of not overshadowing Hillary Clinton. He brought approximately zero additional support, and while the supposed votes that come with a vice presidential candidate are probably overstated in many instances, the pasty white countenance didn’t do much to convince minority voters that their interests and concerns would in any way be represented. (Yes, Hillary worked for medical coverage for underprivileged children under Medicaid; bully for her, but as has been clearly established, the facts no longer matter to voters.) Running Kaine is not even a question anyone should be asking.
I’m seeing a lot of sour grapes about how Hillary wasn’t elected because too many people are opposed to a female president, which apparently is stated in ignorance of the fact that many voters who would normally be expected to sway toward a female candidate did not support her. While there was certainly a copious display of misogyny in this election, the fact is that the people who were going to vote against any female candidate were probably voting for Trump anyway, and many who might have voted for a female candidate were put off enough by Clinton to not vote, or worse, were inspired by Trump’s rhetoric to vote for him. The response to this should absolutely not be that female candidates are not viable; it should be that broad demographic appeal and public perception are more important than facts and experience. That doesn’t mean shifting the Democratic party further to the political right to try to steal away votes, or picking safely pale people; it means doubling down and picking charismatic but pragmatically principled candidates who will inspire all the people who stayed home this time in apathy or indecision to vote.
Clinton clearly won the popular vote, and primarily lost on demographics in the Electoral College in the arrogant assumption that certain blocs would vote uniformly for her rather than split or abstain. And even this was against her own lack of personal appeal, and with the questions of integrity that allowed the Robert Mercer funded slime machine to stick enough manufactured dirt on Clinton to sway voters. The correct lesson from this is that next time the DNC needs to pick candidates with broad appeal, principled stance for progressivism (if that’s the direction they want to go), and be vigilant about the potential for manufactured scandal.
Stranger
Kaine may not be exciting or different, but you should never discount a politician who is a proven winner and has been good at every job he’s ever done. Those are known as “blue chips” in any other context. We tend to get focused too much on the exciting potentials rather than the existing strong leaders. In four years, Booker, Duckworth, Harris, they might not be ready. You don’t want another Rubio situation. Kaine is ready right now, so he should be regarded as the frontrunner until someone knocks him off that perch.
Kaine is ready for what? He’s going to pull in the Latino and millennial that abandon Clinton? He’s going to inspire the blacks that supported Obama to get out the vote? Will he pull the disaffected lower middle class of Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin, North Carolina, et cetera away from promises of manufacturing jobs that are not going to return? Don’t misunderstand; Kaine is by all accounts a smart, perceptive individual who is a key fundraiser. He also brings along nothing in terms of marginalized swing voters who are most likely to sway an election. In comparison, what was demonstrated by the Trump campaign was that fact-spouting and policy-making is essentially irrelevant as long as you can appeal to the emotions of fear and disenfranchisement (however
The sad, shitty truth is that marketing a candidate is not some kind of esoteric science, and it has little to do with experience, competence, or policy. The fact that Clinton was not well regarded, and that Kaine didn’t bring in addition voters is not some kind of unexpected insight. The DNC doesn’t need to stoop to the lows of the neoconservative effort so smear any opposition by hook or by crook, but they need to select candidates who are clean and defensible, which was always a losing proposition with Clinton even setting aside the personal conflicts of interest she carried in. It isn’t at all fair that she was blamed for Bill Clinton’s infidelities or (quite possibly real) sexual assaults, but in the end, fair does not matter.
And for fuck’s stake, stop talking about Michelle Obama as a candidate for 2020. Yes, she is an intelligent and personable person. She is also totally unqualified and also manifestly uninterested potential candidate for the presidency. It’s fine to talk to her suitability as Secretary of Education, or HHS, or in some role as a public ambassador to a qualified candidate, but she’s not going to run for president and the notion of carrying on some political dynasty as if we’re running some kind of parliamentary monarchy is absurd.
Stranger
Kaine doesn’t bring in new voters, but assuming a 50-50 country you can do a lot worse than to have someone running that the public can have confidence in and is scandal-free. Not saying Kaine should be the guy, but the young guns have to prove their worth to justify a place on the ticket, whereas party veterans with long records of accomplishment and no scandal have proven themselves. Most newbies aren’t Barack Obama. Most are like Rubio or Quayle.
Kaine is perfect. Very popular with hispanics and he is “clean and defensible”. Sure, he’s get smeared by the Rove hate & lie machine, but they will have to stoop to made up shit, like they did with Obama. (and it didnt work then).
As to bringing in the "disaffected lower middle class of Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin, North Carolina, et cetera " because manufacturing jobs are **not **going to return, and they will discover this after four years of Trump buttfucking them, and feel even more betrayed and angry. Trump can not and will not do anything to help them, he will make their plight even worse.
You are right about Michelle. I do hope the next Dem admin does use her in a appropriate position, however. Hmm, I am not even saying No to a Veep slot under Kaine. White Male, popular with Hispanics, and Black Female, incredibly popular with blacks? Could work.
Well, with the white working class, Trump not delivering for them won’t win a Democrat votes. The white working class is now a lot like the black working class. One party doesn’t deliver for them and the other is pure poison.
Getting the white working class back into the Democratic fold isn’t something you do with a Presidential candidate selection. Joe Biden is probably the last of that dying breed. Bernie Sanders isn’t really the answer, he may be pro-working class but he can’t win a primary without mobilizing college students and progressives, whose priorities are quite different from working class white voters.
Damon Linker had a great article about where the Democrats go from here and noted that all paths involve risk. Appealing more to white working class voters, something the party can only do through fairly united party effort, risks depressing minority turnout. That’s the nature of adjusting your ideology, you lose voters as well as win voters.
This is the kind of delusional horseshit that got you where you are today. Either appeal to the disenfranchised people who abandoned Clinton in droves, or go home.
Tim Kaine is a perfectly nice guy; smart, accomplished, pragmatic, and positively nobody could give a fuck about him. If you want to espouse the merits of change, reach for change. Donald Trump beat Clinton, if by but a hair’s breadth, by being a legendary asshole. Take heed. It doesn’t mean that the response is a more aggressive asshole, but it does mean that the DNC needs to consider public appeal over fealty and service.
Stranger
I was going to suggest Al Franken, but he’ll be 69 in 2020. Not prohibitive, but maybe we should move past the Baby Boomers now.
Huh? I’d say Obama delivered quite a lot for the black working class. Health insurance, of course, but there’s also the HARP program which rescued perhaps millions of struggling homeowners.
Tim Kaine is a non-starter. I would be willing to bet, if you took a poll on Nov. 15, one week from the election, more than half the country wouldn’t even be able to name who Hillary Clinton’s running mate was. He’s pablum, and he’s nothing but “more of the same.”
Democrats won the White House in 2008 by reaching beyond “more of the same.” They lost it in 2016 in large part because they went back to the “more of the same” model with Hillary Clinton, hoping that the fact she was female would be enough. Gotta stop that right now.
There’s a REASON Bernie Sanders came within 10% of the number of delegates won by Ms. Clinton during the primaries. It isn’t because he is “same ol’, same ol’.” 
African-Americans loved Obama, but they are very sporadic when it comes to turning out to support other Democrats.
I’d prefer Andrew Cuomo over anyone mentioned in this thread. He’s kind of a dick, and that seems to all the rage.
Cuomo is capable at least but he’s got a moderate amount of dirt. Probably more of a VP prospect.
The ones who dont vote? The ones who did vote for Obama? The ones that will vote for Michelle?
Or are you talking the rust belt blue collars?
The ones who dont vote? The ones who did vote for Obama? The ones that will vote for Michelle?
Or are you talking the rust belt blue collars?
Look, in four years, the only “change” the American voters will want is a change from a republican rule that didnt help them at all.
Facts and reason doesn’t seem to be selling. Maybe the democrats should find a modern-day Edward Bernays and figure out how to package their message in a palatable manner. Total overhaul - get with the times. Failing that, maybe we run Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho.
That is exactly the kind of blinkered catagorical thinking that let us to where we are now. “Nobody will vote for Trump so Clinton will be okay even if she is widely disliked.”.
If that is your mentality, you deserve what you get. Unfortunately, everyone else is going to get it, too.
Stranger
I wish people would stop acting like Clinton lost by some horrible amount. The entire party is not repudiated by what happened here. Yes, we need to overcompensate to be safe, but throwing out the entire party is not the right direction.
Working class whites are a dwindling demographic. While appealing to them is good, you don’t need to convince all that many. Just get their numbers up. Get some attrition.
The thing is, the Democratic Party already does a lot for the white working class. They just didn’t emphasize it. They didn’t sell it. They let Trump become their guy, and that’s what needs to change.