Just to make the point to you that Bricker made to me – every Democrat? every Republican? Those who did were behaving reprehensibly, and deserved to be censured. As does Rep. Wilson.
Sure. In addition to the apology, which he’s already made, immediately following the address, he could acknowledge that his specific accusation was wrong: the bill doesn’t in fact cover health care for illegal aliens.
But that’s the extent of his contrition: to yell liar was both rude and wrong. But he can still oppose a public health care plan on the basis of cost, on the basis that government should not take the role of ensuring health care for everyone anymore than it should ensure college educations for everyone, or on any other principled basis.
Hooray! It took less than 12 hours for you to find a tu quoque that would allow you to offer an opinion of the incident with mitigation!
There are in reality 3 things that are certain in life: death, taxes and that Mr. Moto’s positions will be represented with a tu quoque.
I can’t speak to the specifics. But I would be astonished if the White House Correspondent for The Washington Post did not have floor or at least press access for such a speech.
You’re right, Shodan. It is pathetic that I abdicated my responsibility to make clear you were a crook out for partisan gain, out of a sense that the rule of law and civil decorum were called for. Next time there is an election controversy, I and other patriotic Americans will make sure that criminal charges are brought against the Republicans involved.
It did? Which Democratic senator or congressman yelled out “You lie!” at President Bush before a Joint Session of Congress.
I’m assuming it must have been right after he said: “The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa,” but I can’t clearly recall.
Not that my opinion matters, but I don’t think you’re a troll. But do you not see how it can come off as, well, trollish when you mock the outrage, suggesting it’s due to liberal worship of the “Holy One?” To suggest that is the source of the outrage, and not that it’s flat-out wrong to shriek out “You lie!” while the President is addressing Congress, is absurd. If you believe there is some hypocrisy afoot, why don’t you just say so, instead of peddling this Obamessiah fantasy that exists in the minds of Republicans?
Why the hell am I even responding to this? Ah, well, slow work day, I guess. Listen, troll, the reason my second comment was shorter than my first was because I had just spent ten minutes carefully considering and typing my point (which by the way included passing mention of the Democrats and other left-end types who engage in the same behavior). Do you really, really think that it would have made sense for me to literally type the whole thing out again? That’s just exquisitely stupid. I JUST SAID that people who lower the tone of debate suck. Stephe’s “point” had nothing to do with anything - why should I have wasted any more energy on it than I did? I already gave my opinion in my first post; like I said, I have a slow work day, but no slow work day is slow enough to type the exact same post twice just to satisfy you.
But the bottom line is this: I regard the Democrats who booed Bush as counterproductive and disrespectful on the same level as Joe Wilson. I regard them with exactly equal outrage (other than that one of them was years ago and the other was, you know, yesterday).
You seem to be implying that the above is not true, that my outrage is NOT equal, on the basis of your inability to read for context. So fine:
I’ve said directly that I think you’re a troll. Will you say directly that you think I’m a liar?
Again, who are “you people?” What do you suspect my political positions to be?
Someone is making a fool of themselves in this line of discussion; I’m pretty sure it isn’t me. You probably should take a minute to consider whether the political leanings of the person you are accusing of a “Dem good, Republican bad” stance actually coincide with the accusation.
I can’t speak to the specifics. But I would be astonished if the White House Correspondent for The Washington Post did not have floor or at least press access for such a speech.
Alberto? Is that you?
Oh, please. Your function in these threads is pretty much the same as Rep. Wilson’s function was at the speech: saying something inflammatory and making people upset and outraged, so that now the debate is about being upset and outraged instead of anything worth talking about.
Nothing about coming in here with embarrassing little potshots about “Obama = Messiah” is necessary to these boards. There is nothing debate-worthy about that. It doesn’t raise the level of discourse here. It doesn’t change anyone’s mind. It doesn’t do anything useful or meaningful. It just causes a big mud-slinging fight, which I can only assume is what you want. And if your response is, “But other people do it too,” then I would simply tell you what I tell my kids in similar situations, which is that just because someone else did it first, doesn’t make it right.
What America do you live in? The repubs have stated clearly that the health care system needs an overhaul. The vast majority of Americans want the system fixed. We have about 50 million uncovered, many of them are children. They have a business model that increases profits by denying coverage and dropping patients when they need the coverage.
You probably were quite happy when Bush ,a failed businessman, was saying they had to fix health care. They just did not want to do the tough work. People like you would react immaturely . They could not afford to make their base dwindle any more than it already has.
Dear Rep. Wilson:
As an American personally commited to the advancement of health care reform, I want to extend my heartfelt gratitude for your candor and straightforward, unvarnished batshitude. There is no clear metric to quantify your contribution to my cause, but I think we can say without fear of contradiction: totally awesome, dude! You have earned yourself a place in our hearts and in a sub-footnote of History, and we won’t soon forget it!
Here’s hoping that your uninhibited self-expression ensures you the place of honor you so richly deserve, and a Medal of Free Dumb hangs in solemn majesty around your neck, alongside the rotting albatross of your surrendered dignity. You have done a grateful nation an enormous service, albeit unwittingly, and I look forward eagerly to the eloquence and humility of your concession speech.
Your newest fan,
e.
You address the question I was going to ask here a little bit, but I’ll ask it anyway.
What is the difference between booing at certain points in a speech, and screaming out “you lie” after a point in it? Is there a difference at all?
It’s the difference between honest dissent and dishonest namecalling.
“Hey, who’s that guy with the paper crown and the cap gun that I always see hanging around?”
“Oh… yeah, he’s a little off, but seems harmless. Keeps telling people he’s ‘here to keep us honest’.”
“Whatever. Just make sure he stays in the corner, and away from sharp objects.”
Am I the only person here who feels that booing and heckling are two different things?
Both are wrong, and have no place during an address, but they are two different things. Perhaps someone could show me a Democrat heckling Bush during an address to a joint session of congress.
You truly are a moron.
But representative it would appear of the fringe of a rump party that is driving itself off a cliff.
Reminds me of Labour in its desperate period.
America is a free country, and dissent is patriotic, and there are times when it might be appropriate to call the President a liar during a speech, but under no circumstances is it appropriate to call the President a liar when they are saying something that is demonstrably true. So either this guy knows what he said is a lie, he is too stupid to read the bill that plainly contradicts his opionion, or is too lazy to learn about the facts before undertaking the rather rash act of calling the Commander In Chief a liar on national TV. Any of thse make him unworthy of serving in Congress and the voters in his district should recall him. But, of course they won’t, because they are blithering idiots who will say “well he apologized”, not groking the fact that he should not apologize for his rudeness, but for his lieing and/or cluelessness. And Clinton got a blowjob.
There’s the level of disruption involved - there are usually pauses in the speech where applause or booing can be done without interrupting the speech itself. And if the boos take place during others’ applause, it’s no more disruptive than the applause is (that said, I find excessive applause during speeches irritating too). In fact, booing during applause may be used as much to indicate dissent with the applause as with the speaker.
One heckler shouting out while the speaker is talking is far more disruptive and harder to excuse than general booing during applause breaks (although obviously persistent booing throughout is inherently disruptive and disrespectful). Heckling is also different in that it is specific - you’re not just expressing general disagreement, you’re actually saying something (and usually something rude).
If you’re trying to shout down, drown out or throw off the person talking you’re being a jerk, and if you add insults to that you’re being a BIG jerk.