I removed this link based on this rule from the Pit Rules sticky:
Please stop junior modding. Carol, I know you’ll hate this, but no warning issued.
Gfactor
Pit Moderator
Yeah, questioned. That’s exactly what he did.
You know what? I’ve written a few times - I doubt you’ve noticed - that I think you’re smarter than what you post in these forums. I still think that, and so, I say, frankly: you are a troll. Literally, completely, in the sense for which the term was invented.
I mean, there are really only two choices: (1) you’re stupid enough to think that the near-universal annoyance at Mr. Wilson’s remarks - which has come from noted Obama-worshiper John McCain - is in any way reflective of the sentiment above; or (2) you’re deliberately warping every debate, saying things you don’t actually mean or believe, just to get a rise out of your more sensitive political opponents.
I don’t believe #1 to be the case. So it has to be trolling. Why? What’s the point? What do you get out of it? You know why people are bothered by this thing, so why do you pretend to think it’s something else?
I hate this shit, I really do. Look, the problem here is not that the man “questioned” President Obama. It’s that he did it at the time, in the place, and in the way he did it. Had Joe Wilson gone on television or mounted the podium or written an editorial laying out his opposition to the President’s plan, based on demonstrable facts and his own analysis thereof - even if his tone was passionate - it would be not just acceptable but incredibly desirable. The whole point of this system of government is that it depends on people debating, honestly, publicly, and in good faith, the places where their opinions diverge.
Things like shouting “liar!” in the middle of an address lower the tone of the discourse. They make it about yelling and twisting and obfuscating. They create a “debate” with no more value than a grade school playground brawl. It’s so counterproductive, so stupid. We have people who don’t know their ass from their elbow when it comes to health care; in fact, most of the country is like that. If the debate is kept on a mutually respectful, fact-based, intelligent level, the discussion itself could serve to educate the people who need it, to allow them to make reasonable decisions.
Instead, we shout “liar!” and sniggering morons like Stephe smack their hands together gleefully and think that’s “opposition.” That’s not “opposition.” It’s not “dissent.” Dissent is more than a sound-byte, it’s more than an epithet.
Now here on this message board, where our collective political influence can be measured in fly farts, it doesn’t matter nearly as much. Shodan trolls and Stephe wallows and their counterparts on the left make chimp jokes and who gives a shit, really?
But Joe Wilson is part of the process. He’s part of the fucking solution, or he should be. When he deliberately lowers the tone of the debate, when he helps the slide into idiocy onto which our political process has been placed… he’s not just showing disrespect for Barack Obama. He’s not just showing disrespect for the “office of the President,” whatever that means.
He’s showing disrespect for our entire system of government. He’s showing disrespect for all of us, right, left, middle, and other, by assuming that all of us, like poor stupid Stephe, can only manage ideas constructed of simple one-syllable words.
And that is why he’s a douchebag, and a national embarassment.
A more on point example of the South Carolinian Rhetorical Persuasiveness.
I find this interesting. If the Repubs were so interested in getting health care reforms passed, what were their efforts to this end during the eight years they had the Oval Office and the six years they controlled Congress?
According to their own plan, their Health Care Solution Group worked on it for “months.” Why’d they wait until after they had fewer numbers than would ensure passage of *their *plan? Why’d Bush spend so much time talking about terrorism and so little time talking about health care? If they truly want heath care reform, why didn’t they push health care reform? Why did the ranks of the uninsured swell by at least 5.4 million, including the addition of 360,000 uninsured children in one year alone?
Where have they been? What did they attempt to accomplish on *their *watch?
You said this so well. I applaud you.
Was Dana Milbank in the room and monitoring the outbursts? I had the sound up at home and only heard Wilson’s comment. I had no idea there were others.
I’m an American, I currently pay into a medical program that would be unaffected by the pending legislation, and I want a public option to be made available. If at some later date a nationalized health care system is adopted, along the lines of those in Britain and France, that’s fine with me too.
Your incessant sloganeering and sneering insults, based as they so often are on lies and half-truths, do you no credit. Someday, if you actually are interested in getting people to listen to you, you might want to consider a different approach.
Here’s the thing about Shodan: When he actually has a point, he makes it. When he doesn’t, he posts things like the item above. I usually take the latter to mean that he has no coherent counterargument to the matter at hand, and therefore by default he supports the point under discussion.
I didn’t think that was possible until last night.
When you figure it out, let me know so I can get what’s left of my sane and rational friends and family out of there before we build a wall around it to quarantine it.
Oh, if only…
Calling someone a liar (and falsely, at that, since undocumented aliens will not be eligible for credits to help them buy health insurance) is not questioning. You may want to consult a dictionary.
Actually, it’s option #3 - I am making fun of your position. I derive amusement from mocking the outrage of people who pretend that they would not immediately spin 180[sup]o[/sup] if the political parties were reversed.
You are trying the old dodge - anyone who disagrees with the groupthink is trolling.
I do actually believe this is laughable. So I laugh at it.
Feel free to report my post, if you actually believe it is trolling. It isn’t, so nothing will be done.
Regards,
Shodan
I know this comment was a little back in the thread, but this may be the most spot on summary I’ve heard of the situation. Bravo, sir.
You do walk a fine line, I’ll give you that. It’s just that many conservatives are *actually *as stupid as you pretend to be. So it’s hard to make a case for trolling. 
Yes, the Democrats would definitely heckle the President on the floor of the Senate if he were a Republican and they were in the minority. Oh wait…
What irks me, besides the obvious lack of common decorum on Rep. Wilson’s part, is his using the word “disagreement” in his apology. A genuine DISAGREEMENT over some proposal would be okay…but you can’t DISAGREE about a clear fact, like what is or is not in some proposed legislation. If he had shouted “You lie!” when Obama made any of his several points about what his plan will or will not cost, well okay, not exactly a lie, but at least a point on which you can disagree. But this?
Go fuck yourself, buddy. You know nothing about me or my opinions; you’re too wrapped up in yourself to notice what people are saying. If some Democratic senator at some point screamed “liar!” at a Presidential address during the Bush administration (or any Republican administration, or any administration), let me know about it. I’ll happily, and cheerfully, call him/her a douchebag and a national disgrace right along with Mr. Wilson - for exactly the same reasons.
Simple question, yes or no answer: do you believe that my objection to Mr. Wilson’s actions is based primarily on the fact that he “questioned” Barack Obama, whom I worship?
If “yes,” then you’re an idiot.
If “no,” then why did you write a post characterizing it as such?
Oh, and I couldn’t care less about reporting you for trolling. I’ve gotten a bit beyond playing “I’m not touching you” games. I know what you are and you know what you are. Who gives a damn what a moderator thinks about it?
Thank you. That little detail has been bugging me since it happened, and I was making my way through the thread planning a post similar to yours. Well said.
It probably won’t matter one whit to the liberal moonbats, but apparently the Dems booed Bush during his speech to Congress in 2005:
http://mediamatters.org/research/200502040014
Here’s what John Roberts of CBS News said on 2/2/05: “At a couple points in this address, it looked more like the British Parliament than the United States Congress. I’ve never heard the minority party shout at the president during the State of the Union address.”
Gee, I wonder how many Democrats apologized for their behavior back then…hmm.
They all should have.
Is there a point lurking in there somewhere?