Heh, I should dig up the JRRT thread where I was accused of derisive mockery and threadshitting because my comments were so ubernerdy that my own recognized me not!
[sub]IIRC, I was ranting about the linguistic associations of Gwerlum (early name for Ungoliant) and Gollum, and bemoaning JRRT’s decision to abandon his idea of having Valinorean represent the actual language of the Valar before the arrival of the elves, instead making it equivalent to Quenya as spoken by the Vanyar.[/sub]
Mmm… not really a problem if Glorfindel is simply prophesying based on a fore-seeing of the WK’s actual death. In that case he could have said that “He’ll be consumed by a great fish in the Sea of Rhûn”, then watched as the WK studiously avoided the far east for centuries, and finally chuckled up his elven sleeves when Eowyn and Merry took the WK down outside Minas Tirith. But then elves do seem terribly earnest and unlikely to perpetrate such a practical joke.
Besides, the scribes and bards never bothered to write down all the prophecies that were never fulfilled. We only know about the ones that turned out to be accurate, so we can all ooo and ahh about their wisdom and insight. Call it the Jeane Dixon Effect.
I vote for Frodo as the least competent of all the characters. Even with Bilbo’s mail shirt and elven dagger, he did nothing but cower and hide and had to be carried to the end by Samwise. His only attempt at defensive action was a foot stab!
I think that Smaug deserves a mention. He certainly was aware of Bilbo’s theft, and I suspect could have easily located him even without seeing him. At the minimum he could have simply strafed fire in a 180 degree arc and just looked for the smoke. He was brought down by his own arrogance as well.
You are all wrong on this one, but its ok, I know about these things and so I can set you straight.
The most incompetent character in Tolkiens legendarium? That would be Sam.
Just look a little closer at Sams actions throughout the whole story, and it becomes clear that from the start he was nothing but a drain on the fellowship, a burden to be overcome and a misstep waiting to happen.
Consider just a few of the many examples:
Which idiot Hobbit compromised Merry and Pippens very effective surveliance cell, which had to that point not missed a beat in its stated goal of watching over Frodo until the time was right to step forward and assist him. Frodo almost died during the Frantic race from the Shire to Rivendell, whereas if Merrys original plan had been followed, all preperations would have been ready for a quiet, uneventful journey, perhaps on a succession of Elven postal coaches. Sam fucked that up, all because he couldnt even help from distracting two people who were deep in conversation about the end of the world. What a clutz.
An interesting result of his bumbling, was Sams immediate turn to the dark side. He was helping Merry and Pippen to spy on Frodo, then, without even being tortured, he switches sides like a little bitch. How trustworthy is that? Even mercenaries would only switch for the profit, Sam switched sides because of harsh language. Good job he was already wearing Orc clothing when that chain gang made them march along in Mordor, he would have been looking for some anyway when he jumped up and shouted, “I can be a good little Orc, please dont shout at me…”
Who was the most help in getting the shortarses from Bree to Rivendell? Thats right, Strider was. And who was the Hobbit that was rude and distrustful of Strider right from the start? Thats right, Sam was. Way to go Sam, why not drive away the only man willing to help you lot. Sam is damn lucky Strider didnt just say “Screw you lot, you dont want my help? Then get lost, ungrateful little shites.”
Which numpty was so insistant on bringing a fucking horse to the gates of Moria? Yeah, Sam and his beastiality buddy Bill. Everybody and their uncle knows that the watcher at the gate has a thing for horses, why do you think the Dwarves didnt have any stables about them? They knew horses attracted the watcher, but ballbag Sam had to have his little pony.
Which pratt nearly killed the ringbearer long before he ever reached Mordor? Sam, thats who. The river Anduin is not for kiddies paddling or rubber duckies, yet here we have Sam splashing about like the Shortbus had just pulled up and let him out. Theres Frodo, trying to make a clean getaway from nutcase Boromir, and Sam fumbles up and nearly capsizes the bloody boat! And then makes Frodo, not a strong swimmer himself, have to dive in and rescue him!They could have both been killed! Jesus Sam, what were you thinking?
Even after months of traveling, and having it made perfectly clear that they were on a dangerous mission, Sam still thinks he is on a fucking weekend scouts camp. What was going through his tiny mind, lighting a fucking fire in Ithilian? Never mind the countless zoning and pollution laws he probably violated, he must have known there was a desperate need for secrecy? He must have known Orcs and Easterlings were in the area? Hes a lucky boy it was Faramir who saw their smoke, not some evil representaion of technological advance who would have punched them.
These are just some examples I threw out from memory, the books are filled with hundreds just like them. Sure, some of the other guys may have made a mistake once or twice along the way, but Sam was a constant feckin danger to himself and others. Yet Pippen gets the bad rap! “Fool of a took”? Should be "fool of a fat gardener from the brothels of Hobbiton.
Knows Frodo has the ring, knows Nazgul are pursuing him, knows untrustworthy people are in the common room and yet still fails to prevent Frodo and company from shouting “HEY SHIRE HOBBITS OVER HERE. MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE MAGIC RING!!”
Great woodsman scrambles up a bare exposed hill known for allowing a clear view of the road and local area and struts around with a gaggle of hobbits in broad daylight. Oddly enough they are spotted
Great woodsman has to be fucking reminded by the hobbits that have never been to Rivendell that maybe if we’re in a rush the road would be a neat idea
As replacement leader he forgets Frodo just about got skewered in Moria
Notices but doesn’t warn Frodo that Gollum is following them. Frodo – the one fucking, glowing target Gollum would obviously be gunning for
Recklessly loses track of time and almost puts the team through the rapids of San Grebir at night
Fails to keep Boromir under control
Fails to control Merry, Pippin and even Gimli and Legolas
Fails to figure out what dim witted Sam figures out and so Frodo gets to schlep across the dead marshes with dimwit and Gollum
Somehow manages to fail to catch up to 200 orcs in armour despite the fact the orcs sleep, eat and fight each other over the course of the race
Races to Pelargir with a army of ghosts and fails to have them follow to the battle of Pelennor field and so allows for continued carnage and loss of life for a side that’s outnumbered at least 10 to 1
He does seem to get better near the end though.
You could argue that he was divinely incompetent and so allowed for the quest to succeed.
Among the “people of power” (Elrond, Gandalf, Saurman etc.), I guess the most incompetent (and perhaps the most obscure) are the Blue Wizards, sent to thwart Sauron in the land of Harad. In the Book of Lost Tales, it was implied that they had failed to stop Sauron, or forsaken their mission and were worshiped as some form of god.
I don’t see it. The quote clearly says that Merry’s blade was enchanted, and that it alone could “brea[k] the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will”. Therefore, Merry struck the killing blow. Eowyn, much as I love her, did not.
Merry struck the blow that allowed someone to finish off the Witch-King. It was Merry. But still someone, and it could have been nearly anyone still needed to chop down the unknit Wraith. It is a subtle difference but I think an important one.
Merry could have killed the Witch-King with the help of anyone capable of striking the blow while standing against the fearful Witch-King. Éowyncould never have killed the Witch-King with Meriadoc’s blades.
For the OP, Saruman is the clear winner. They even make fun of him in the book for his idiocy (“Saruman is certainly in a cleft stick of his own making!”) His stunning failure to account for the Ents, a massively powerful and ancient race, was his biggest, but not his only, mistake.
Hell, even the narrator makes fun of his incompetence and his use of Orthanc, calling it a “child’s toy” or a “slave’s flattery”, compared to Barad Dur.
No, the identity of the OP started the thread down that slope.
Well … not so much as a slippery slope on which one might stumble and fall, but a cliff over which one leapt deliberately.
As for the word legendarium, I was wanted to make it clear that anything the Perfesser work was fair came, and I didn’t feel like naming all three of his major works.
I’m not sure what the Spanish kingdom has to do with this thread.
Actually, do all of Tolkien’s major evil characters represent an overall degeneracy of evil over time, in a more or less unbroken line? I mean, Morgoth wanted to have Aule’s place as the master of the universe. Sauron wanted to be Morgoth, but was a pale reflection of his power, being a lesser Valar. Saruman ended up under the dominion of Sauron, but was not nearly as powerful. Wormtongue represents the uttermost pathetic end, being just as evil, but of inconsequential power.