First off, his skin is not black. It’s not even brown! This is what Colin Powell looks like. When most Americans think “black guy”, Colin Powell’s picture is not what comes to mind.
Secondly, I didn’t say anything about “acting” black. Please don’t put words like that in my mouth. And sorry, but the Rick James stuff is old. I can’t laugh at it anymore.
I’m from Atlanta, a city that has been successful in electing black mayors through the years. This is something to be proud about. But it should be said that every single black mayor it’s elected has passed the brown bag test with flying colors. The power of light skin should not be downplayed at all.
Example?
Leiberman is bland and talks like he’s constipated. But people wanted him. He and Gore got a hell of a lot of votes.
Good thing I didn’t say this.
You’re oversimplifying things if you think race can be put aside.
Say what?
Go back and read my post. Where do I mention the word “racism”?
My thinking is this (and I’m stating everything explicitly so you can’t distort my argument): a person may feel that it’s chic to put their support behind the popular black candidate. I have never heard anyone say they wouldn’t vote for Colin Powell. He seems to be everyone’s dream boat. Probably many people feel genuinely interested in Powell as a candidate, and feel that he has a lot to offer. I think a great deal of others, however, say they will vote for him only because they feel it’s the PC thing to do. They may disagree with his performance as SS. They may feel he’s too conservative or too moderate. But they may also feel that their outward disapproval of him will be misconstrued as racism–a taboo in our society.
Or they may very well be racist.
And they may decide to go with their gut feelings when they’re all by themselves in the voting booth.
Sorry, my mistake. I thought that you might mean how he acts as opposed to how he looks because, to me, he does look black. A light skinned black, yes, but black none the less. I didn’t understand that you don’t see him as physically looking black.
I’ll have to google “brown bag test”, I’m unfamiliar with that term.
I’ll give you a couple. Michael Bloomberg and George Pataki.
The Gore/Leiberman ticket did get a lot of votes, but without Gore, Leiberman didn’t have a chance.
You said:
Bolding mine. I guess I misunderstood that part. Please explain what you ment by that.
This sounds, and I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but it sounds like you’re of the opinion that a lot of white Americans are, to some degree, racists. And any way, all I ment was, even if he was white, he still wouldn’t have been elected.
When you said
You make it sound like the people who said that they’d vote for Powel, were liars. I’m saying that since he didn’t run, you don’t know that.
No, you don’t use the word, it just seems implied. OK, maybe that’s strong, but I get the feeling from reading your posts, that you feel that a lot white Americans, especially Repubicans and conservatives have something against voting for a black president. It just kind of puts me on the defensive, the same way that I’m sure certain stereotypes generalizations about blacks rub you the wrong way.
I’m a white, conservative Republican, and it bothers me when people make comments about us either not wanting a black president, or only wanting one we can control. I know you didn’t say that all of us are like that, and I was probably too defensive. My apologies.
Ouch, that hurt. I’m sorry that you feel like I’m distorting your arguments. I’m just going by what you say, or what seem to be implying. I’m sorry if I distorted any of your arguments. That wasn’t my intent.
Although it’s sometimes hard to tell how a person’s feeling, from reading their posts, I have a very strong feeling that I pissed you off. My aplogies.
If being a minority has to do with being under-represented, then Michael Moore must be the largest majority in America. Well, in California, New York and Washington, at least.
Not to bust up a great joke, but Michael Moore != spokesman for all liberals, just as entire population of Cali, NY and DC (not Massachusetts?) != liberals, or did you notice that both states have Republican governors?
The “paper bag test” refers to something done back in the day by black institutions to winnow out the light-skinned blacks (good) from the dark-skinned ones (bad). If your skin was as light or lighter than a brown paper bag, you were in the “club”–you could attend Spelman, attend a bougie church, belong to an elite civic organization (like the Links), marry the hot shot doctor, etc.
… this is Great Debates. Posts should have at least a minimal acquaintance with reality. We’re not going to have a black president in the US, ever.
Remember when Jackson ran for president in '84, people came out of the woodwork with assassination plots, caches of weapons and itineraries. If I recall correctly, he had more death threats made against him than the all the other Democratic candidates combined. And the assassination plots were probably limited by the fact that Jackson had no real chance of winning the nomination.
Recall too that when Tom Bradley, successful several term mayor of Los Angeles ran for governor of California, white people polled said they were going to vote for him, but changed their minds once they were in the voting booth. According to the polls Bradley was going to win, but white Californians preferred a no name Republican with no real track record.
Recall also the good cheer and salutations that erupted among many white Americans when news of MLK’s assassination came down. King was never a presidential candidate, but he was a leader of a mass movement with national and international impact, and huge numbers of white Americans were thrilled to see him go.
We could have a white female president very soon, though not Hilary - too much baggage.
Very recently I thought that a white woman prez would manifest way before a minority, but after getting a taste of Obama, I think he would have a great chance if he were to run 8 years from now.
Unfortunately, I can’t imagine when we’ll ever have a minority woman president. Especially a black woman. People are so used to seeing leadership in the form of middle-aged white male, that something as different from that form as a black woman would be hard for the public to swallow.
I think what is often forgotten is that a lot of people (like Midwesterners), interact very little with racial and ethnic minorities, so these voters will be hesistant to vote for the “other”. For instance, a black man can’t just put on a cowboy hat, a pair of Levis, and an exaggerated drawl and then connect with Texan ranchers as easily as a white dude can. At least a white woman is generally more familiar and won’t have to overcome that you-ain’t-like-folks-'round-here prejudice that would probably affect brown- hued people. I think that one is harder to fight than the “she’s a bitch if she’s strong, she’s a wimp if she’s feminine” double-edged sword that women face.
I’m curious about this statement. Do you have any cites which provide support for Spelman discriminating on the basis of skin color within the Black community? And does the same accusation also apply to Morehouse?
One of the most important areas in which mulattoes received superior treatment to darker-skinned Blacks was in education. Mulattoes formed preparatory schools and colleges that denied access to persons who were too dark.128 Many historically Black colleges and universities established in the nineteenth century also discriminated on the basis of color in their admissions process.129 Not only were educational institutions segregated by color, but their curricula differed as well. In schools attended by mulattoes, students received a liberal arts education. By contrast, darker-skinned Blacks were taught in schools and programs that focused primarily on vocational learning.130 This focus on training in practical skills reinforced the placement of darker-skinned Blacks into lower-paying, less-skilled positions.
Thanks, Belowjob2.0; that article does indeed reference another source which mentions admission policies at Spelman discriminating against darker-skinned Blacks. As a total side issue (and it doesn’t have to be addressed in this thread), now I wonder when that practice changed and, to some degree–among the students, at least–reversed. My wife was a student at Spelman in the late '80s and early '90s, and she was criticized for not being “Black enough” in skin color.
Unless Hillary makes it (which I doubt), I’m guessing that the person will go thru the VP slot first before being elected president. And since there are many, many more minority males in government than white females, I think it’ll be a minority male: Black if Republican, while a Hispanic could probably be from either party. A Black republican would gain lots of votes from democrats, but I think a Black democrat would have a real tough time persuading republicans to vote for him/her (especially her).
I fully concur with **Monstro ** on the paper bag test. It’s sad, but true that a light skinned Black still has a big leg up on a dark skinned Black in this country.
I think Hilary has a great chance if she can run. Her best chances I think would be if Kerry lost. Else, it is likely that Kerry will be around for 2 terms, then comes Edwards. So Edwards could win or lose. So that makes it 12 years at least for Hilary. Long time I think. Maybe Obama will be her running mate.
Personally I would loved to have seen a Dean / Mosley Braun. Probably the smartest POTUS/VPOTUS combo.
