Whoever did the advertising for 12 Monkeys should be fired

Back when the movie 12 Monkeys came out in, what, 1996?, I, like everyone else watching TV, saw the blitz of commercials for it. And everyone knows that commercials and trailers for a movie always have all the best bits in them, right? So it’s usually safe to assume that bad commercials imply a bad movie. Well, I was thoroughly convinced by the commercials for 12 Monkeys that I had absolutely no interest in seeing such a stupid movie.

Fast forward to 2003. Yesterday, I was at a friend’s place, and he was watching it. So, of course, I did too. And it was actually a damn good movie! It was self-consistent. It was suspenseful, but well-foreshadowed. On the few occasions where they explained things, the explanations made sense, and more importantly, they knew which parts to not try to explain. They even did the time-travel elements right, fercryin’ out loud, which I think makes this the first movie I’ve ever seen which managed to pull that one off.

And I almost missed out on it, because some advertising agency was too incompetent to put together intelligent, coherent commercials.

12 Monkeys is extremely underrated by people who never saw it, if that makes sence. Brad Pitt was fabulous (and I’m not normally a big fan of his). And like you said, it was a time-travel movie that actually made sense.

Love the final scene on the airplane.

In the biz the last words you want to hear about a film is that it is a ‘marketing challenge’.

Usually that phrase refers to a movie like 12 Monkeys. Quite simply it is hard to explain what the hell this movie is and sell the movie to a mass audience in 30 or 60 seconds. It is too complicated a film to do it effectively. Now watch Gattaca and Fearless.

One film that I can think of off the top of my head that was weird and sold lots of ticket would be The Truman Show. Of course, that had Jim Carrey and his deal with the devil going for it.

Never saw any advertising for this movie.

Wathced it on video, as it seemed to appeal to me.

One of my favourite films - I love it.

The airport scene at the end, with ‘the kid’ (trying not to spoil here) just blew me away.

Madeleine Stowe is gorgeous too…

Just too intricate to advertise. I mean, what best bits would you have put in the ad?

Terry Gilliam has had a streak of bad advertising for his films, mostly because they are so…out there that the suits have troub le really classifying them. Imagine some yuppie marketing ‘genius’ getting a hold of Brazil and trying to figure it out.

Thinking back, Time Bandits, Brazil, , Fisher King, and Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas had the same fucked up advertising for them. Luckily I got past them both and enjoyed the movies but not a lot of people did.

While I agree completely with what you’re saying, it’s interesting that you mention Fearless.

That’s been one of my favorite films since I was in college. I never saw a trailer for it, but rented it as a Peter Weir fan. I was totally blown away by it. At the time, I was a film student, and one of the exercises in one of my classes was to make a trailer for a film of your choice. We were to make a 3-minute version, as well as 60- and 30-second cuts of essentially the same trailer. I chose Fearless.

[insert ooooohhhhh here]

Now, I’ve always been strong on editing. It’s how I got started, and I love doing it. However, I instantly saw the challenges inherent in choosing a film like Fearless for this project. It’s story structure was too complex to get across in so short a time, so I would have to re-structure it for the trailer. Though the plane crash sequence is the high point of the film, I wouldn’t want to show much of it… just enough to tantalize, not enough to give the whole bag away. While the music used for the film is great (almost ideal really), it wouldn’t come across the same in condensed form, so I had to choose a new piece of music. There were other issues. Structure was the biggest one, though. It seemed almost like I had to re-write the film to make it work for the trailer.

I worked on this thing for a week. Planning it took the majority of the time, but even the production itself was an exercise in tweaking and going back over the same piece over and over. It didn’t help that I was using a cuts-only linear edit bay to do it (a limitation of the project; he didn’t want a bunch of digital effects). I wound up using an excerpt from John Williams’ score for Born on the Fourth of July (I’m not a big Williams fan, but this fit well), and I did sort of re-write the structure of the story quite a bit for the trailer. The plot elements remained the same, but I moved them around quite a bit. And at some point (very early in the morning I think).

When I showed it in class, it got high marks from one and all. However, nobody else had seen the film (shocker), so they couldn’t tell how well I had conveyed the film concept. As has been stated, it’s not an easy film to market. However, the thing that really told me I did a good job was this: several of the students, as well as the teacher of the course, went home and rented the film for themselves, and watched it. None of them had to do it, but they did it anyway. And when we came back to class a few days later, many of them had even better things to say about my trailer.

For what it’s worth, I’ve since seen the real trailer for Fearless. In my oh-so-humble opinion, mine was better, and got the concept of the film across with more clarity. Based on what my old college colleagues said at the time, I think they’d agree. And hell, it made them want to see the movie. That’s the point, right?

Speaking of points, I do indeed have one here. Films like 12 Monkeys and Fearless do represent “marketing challenges” because they are unique and not easily pigeonholed. However, if the person/people trying to sell the film to the public are careful, and take their time, these films can still be sold. The trick is, they have to be sold as unique films. While this seems obvious to many, it seems that it’s not so obvious to some of the people trying to sell movies. Either that, or they just don’t want to try hard enough to sell the tough ones.

And hell, why would they, when an easy one like Armageddon can make more money than three tough sells easily? :rolleyes:

Well, I’m not in marketing or the film biz, so I’m not the best person to ask. But perhaps start off with a voiceover of the opening blurb (“In the year 1996, a virus killed 5 billion people…” etc.), over a backdrop of the scenes of the post-devastation surface (“leaving the world to be ruled by animals” would be when he sees the bear or the lion). Then, part of the sequence where he “volunteers”, and the bit about “I’m not trying to stop the plague. That’s the past, it’s already happened. I’m just trying to gather information”. Then, maybe, some of his conversation with the doctor about how they can’t change what’s going to happen, and the line “If, a few months from now, there are still muggings and burglaries and kids hiding in barns, we’re going to be so damn happy”. Then, about a half a second of the “dream sequence” in the airport (like, just when the gun goes off) as a tantalizer, and end. Maybe somewhere in there, put in one scene showing him to be presumed crazy, like the madhouse or the restraints in the jail cell, but don’t dwell on it.

And Avalonian, you probably realize this as well, but if folks had realized how good 12 Monkeys was, it probably could have made as much money as Armageddon. And at probably a tenth of the cost, as well (how much was the budget for 12 Monkeys?).

$30,000,000

Made many times that, so I’m sure Gilliam was happy(ish)

The DVD has an enjoyable 90 minute doco called The Hamster Factor. It shows, amongst other things, Gilliam delightedly approving the themes of the advertising campaign.

Hollywood rarely seems to know how to market a film that can’t be easily pidgeonholed. In many cases they’ll go to great lengths to make a movie seem like a typical…whatever…that the audience will be comfortable with it rather than something weird.

I’m doing a project now on recent Hollywood musical films, and with most of them you’d never know they were musicals from looking at the trailers. Moulin Rouge!? A sexy thriller! (It wasn’t even clear from the trailer that it was a period piece.) Chicago? Tabloid scandal in the Roaring Twenties, with maybe a couple of jazz club scenes! Velvet Goldmine? A rock and roll “Whodunnit” murder mystery! (Never mind that no one is murdered in the real film.) The trailer for A Chorus Line actually had to use footage that wasn’t even from the movie in an attempt to play down the fact that it was a musical.

And at least the musical is a familiar genre – what genre does 12 Monkeys fit into? Science-fiction, sure, but it’s not exactly a Star Wars-type movie. The marketing people just don’t seem to know what to do with such films, no matter how good they are.

You don’t have to imagine it. Thanks to the Criterion DVD box set, you can see it. It’s a three disc set with Gilliam’s version on one disc and the “marketing” recut on another (here’s a hint - that version had a happy ending).

Now I have to go out and rent Fearless.

As if I don’t have enough on my list of movies to see. Damn!

Advertising this movie was so easy - a full length version of La Jetee…wait, maybe only about .2% of the general population would understand…

All those of you who are fans of 12 Monkeys should see the film La Jetee. It’s a French film from 1962 that was the inspiration for 12 Monkeys. It’s only 30 minutes long, it’s black and white and mostly consists of stills, and it’s better than 12 Monkeys. Your local video rental place is unlikely to have it, but you can buy it.

Mr. Cranky summed it up thusly:

“I just have one question. Where are the monkeys? A guy goes to a film expecting monkeys and doesn’t get any monkeys. Who wouldn’t be dissatisfied?”

:wink:

Fight Club suffered from the exact same problem. Although how do you advertise for a movie that’s about how stupid advertising and consumerism is?

Well, at least they didn’t go with one of those marketing quotes that was suggested for the ads… “The future is in the hands of a man who has none.”

Thankfully somebody pointed out that it sounded like the man in question had no hands, rather than no future.

I’ve learnt never to rely on trailers - it seems a film is portrayed as whatever kind of film sells best, so its hard to tell which ones you mgiht like…