Who's Afraid Of Karl Marx?

[SuaSponte]

*Originally posted by Olentzero *
Unless I widely miss my guess, most corporations aren’t organized on a “one stockholder, one vote” principle. As I understand it, votes are weighted according to the amount of stock one holds in a company, and so my measly ten shares are far outweighed by those who own thousands of shares in NU.

So what if they are outweighed by other shareholders? Is a voter in New York State not a member of the electorate because his/her vote is outweighed by the millions of other N.Y. voters?

As for the rest, it’s pure silliness. A shareholder is a partowner of the owner (the corporation) of the means of production. The corporation is merely a legal fiction - a means of providing an organized structure for the widely dispersed owners of the means of production - that is, the shareholders.

As for this, this goes beyond silliness:

The means of production are owned by those who actively administer the corporation, not those who simply invest in it.

By this, a guy who owns 100% of Megacorp stock, but who turns over running the corporation to professional managers and moves to Tahiti - to live off the dividends and profits of Megacorp - would not be the “owner” of Megacorp. I hope you see that that is ridiculous.

Sua

[Captain_Amazing]

*Originally posted by SuaSponte *
By this, a guy who owns 100% of Megacorp stock, but who turns over running the corporation to professional managers and moves to Tahiti - to live off the dividends and profits of Megacorp - would not be the “owner” of Megacorp. I hope you see that that is ridiculous.

Well, but the owner of Megacorp could, if he so chose, make decisions about Megacorp’s actions. He chooses not to exercise that power,but it doesn[t mean he doesn’t have the power.

[system]

*Originally posted by Mandelstam *
ME Bucker, I promise to try to be nice; in that vein, Collounsbury, sorry if I seemed a bit “sarky” in my last.

Don’t be silly, MEB was clearly reprimanding me, not you at all. In any case, I have a thick skin and require no apologies.

[Olentzero]

*Originally posted by SuaSponte *
So what if they are outweighed by other shareholders? Is a voter in New York State not a member of the electorate because his/her vote is outweighed by the millions of other N.Y. voters?

:rolleyes: Of course he is, because New York State, like the other 49 states and the federal government, has a “one man, one vote” system when it comes to electing officials and deciding referenda. I stated this much quite clearly in my last post, but you apparently thought it more convenient to ignore that.

The corporation is merely a legal fiction - a means of providing an organized structure for the widely dispersed owners of the means of production - that is, the shareholders.

No, the corporation provides an organized structure for the means of production in order to (it is hoped) successfully generate profit. Do corporations look for investors before they design their factories and lay out a business plan? Of course not. Any investor who heard “Well, we don’t have everything sorted out just yet, but we will soon if you give us some money” would laugh the prospective client out of his office. Corporations exist to organize the means of production under capitalism, and investors merely provide financial capital to cover initial startup and operating costs.

By this, a guy who owns 100% of Megacorp stock, but who turns over running the corporation to professional managers and moves to Tahiti - to live off the dividends and profits of Megacorp - would not be the “owner” of Megacorp. I hope you see that that is ridiculous.

If he owns 100% of Megacorp stock, he probably realizes that his personal fortune is almost entirely tied up with Megacorp’s financial performance. If he’s at all smart he’s not going to go to Tahiti and let some management team run the company with no input from him whatsoever. I admit my previous definition may be somewhat weak, but at the same time I can’t conceive of a capitalist who’s a complete “absentee” type in managing his company.

Ultimately, the question of if one is a capitalist boils down to whether or not you’re compelled to sell your labor power to someone else in order to even survive. I have to have a job in order to help feed and clothe my family and keep a roof over all our heads - the income from those ten shares of NU stock aren’t enough even to buy me a decent meal at McDonald’s once a quarter. I am not now, nor have I ever been, a capitalist.