Who's to blame if Biden loses?

…I’m not trying to be an ass at all, but you literally said exactly that, and you seem hostile, (again).

If you want to talk to potential voters that way, I’d think it’d be counter productive.

I’m not here to have nasty fights with people whom, I agree withth on 85% - 90% on something. Jesus, for as long as I’ve been here, it still shocks me that some people on this message board can be so insulating if they disagree, and assume the people they’re talking to are being uncharitable. I’m trying to listen and I come in peace, god damnit.

And what will the lesson be when Biden beats Trump by a larger margin than 2020?

Still snarky, but you at least specify people refusing to vote for Biden here, not just simply “unsatisfied”

I absolutely am hostile to people who will abandon Joe Biden and throw our country to Donald Trump because Biden won’t call me a genocider, yes.

But you asked:

And I answered you: no. Not being satisfied doesn’t make you petulant. I myself am not really satisfied with either candidate.

But come election day, I will go and vote for the guy who I am 65% satisfied with over the guy I was 2% satisfied with 4 years ago (let’s be very generous here, it might be 0.02%).

If I refused to do that, and started crying over the fact that I disapprove of 35% of what he does, and therefore I get the guy I disagree with 98% elected - that would make me a petulant little crybaby.

Could you elaborate? Or are you being disingenuous?

I thought that was obvious from the start.

If you are unsatisfied with Biden, but you grit your teeth and vote for him, you are not helping Trump win, and I am not complaining about you.

Seems like you are.

I thought you’d brought up people who refuse to vote for Biden because he refuses to call the war in Gaza a genocide; maybe I am mixing this up with another similar thread.

I am pretty confused here.

I got into this conversation by saying that Hillary is right: people who don’t like the options “Biden” or “Trump” need to suck it up and vote Biden anyways, if they are opposed to a Trump presidency.

You don’t have to like or be satisfied with Biden. If you did, you’d have nothing to “suck up” - you’d just be a Biden supporter.

If you are going to vote for Biden despite your quibbles with him, that means you are sucking it up, and doing precisely what Hillary and I said you should do.

No, that’s not what I said. I don’t know what what constitutes a genocide enough to claim that. For you to willy-nilly include that os kind of insulting seeing that you specified YOU being the genocider, not the Israeli government.

I don’t believe YOU are good faith, right now.

Even “suck it up” seems a lot more delicate than “get over yourselves”. And not only am I voting for Biden, I’m trying to, despite Hillary’s best efforts, get others to vote for him as well.

Fine, substitute “supporter of genocide” then, because that’s exactly what I have been called by these protestors; but if you didn’t bring that up here I apologize for my mistake and withdraw that bit.

Frankly, I don’t care if a voter passes on Biden because of Gaza, because they want a single player healthcare system, or because he hasn’t done enough on climate change; they’re still tossing our country to Trump.

Then you are not the person I have problems with.

Are you sure? You misrepresented me, how am I to trust you’re being accurate with their intentions?

Not saying you’re “lying”, I’m just saying being as completely honest as you can be with what you think others are telling you is a good thing.

If they call the war in Gaza a genocide, they are calling me a supporter of genocide.

But this is a hijack to your thread; if I was mistaken about you mentioning this motivation among Biden skeptical people upthread then it’s not relevant here.

Actually, you did bring it up, a few times. What exactly are you objecting to me saying?

When I said:

I was talking about people who oppose Biden because they feel:

I never said that you consider this a genocide, or are going against Biden because he won’t call it that. I am saying that I am opposed to people who, unlike you, are not voting for Biden because they don’t think he is hard enough on Israel.

She is 100% correct. She should also STFU. That’s the attitude that helped get Trump elected.

If I’m Biden I’m asking Hillary to stay out of the public eye until December, because she’s as likely to hurt his chances as help them.

[deep breath]

There’s not much reliable data in either direction. I don’t believe “the polls”, collectively, should be accepted uncritically.

Perhaps you didn’t specify me labeling anyone a “genocider”, but you did say this, which confuses me more.

Yes, I think the Israeli government is taking this too far with the current information I have. I know a lot of people, Jewish and otherwise, who agree. But that may derail.

I could be swayed into altering my perspective on certain details, still. But yeah, I think enough is enough when it’s our money. We can try to have an honest conversation about that elsewhere, though.

I am convinced that too many polls have methodological problems or are even nakedly gamed. I’m not sure how to account for that in evaluating any random set of poll data that may reach my ken.