Palestinians do attack the settlements on occasion. However, this is much more difficult - the settlements are completely fenced in and are heavily guarded. Contrast that with the porous border between Israel and the West Bank - much easier to slip into Israel with explosives or a machine gun.
I dunno…
I assumed he/she? was just playing around.
But now that I think about it, maybe he means me? I believe the Bible. That’s about all it takes to get some message boards stirred up.
The Apocalypse will get here when it gets here. None of us can speed it up and, although some will try, none of us can slow it down. It will make WWI and WWII look insignificant, imo.
Revelation 9 says this:
13 The sixth angel sounded his trumpet, and I heard a voice coming from the horns of the golden altar that is before God.
14 It said to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, **“Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates.” ** *** * This is roughly the area where we just won the war with Iraq. China has a rapidly growing economy and they will need lots of oil. ****
15 And the four angels who had been kept ready for this very hour and day and month and year were released to kill a third of mankind.
16 The number of the mounted troops was two hundred million. I heard their number. *** * China has already bragged about being able to put together an army of 200 million. At the time of this prophecy there were not 200 million people on the whole planet. Something to think about. * ***
Let me get this straight. There have been two temples in Jerusalem? The first one was the Solomon Temple that the Babylonians tore down at the beginning of the Babylonian Captivity? We just beat up on Iraq? Iraq is the successor in interest to Babylonia?
The Second Temple was built by Herod? Which Herod I don’t know. That temple was torn down by the Romans at the end of the Great Jewish Revolt in about 70CE? All that is left of the Second Temple is the west side of the foundation wall, the Wailing Wall?
Does all this mean that it isn’t Syria that’s next on the target list, it’s Italy?
Assuming that there is some serious effort to build a Third Temple on the site of the Dome of the Rock, does anybody see a difference between building a mosque on the ruins of a temple that had been destroyed 600 or 700 years before by an empire that no longer existed and destroying a mosque presently used and occupied by people who are very much alive and in possession in order to build a temple?
Well, technically, the second temple was built by Ezra and Nehemiah…it was just expanded by Herod.
And there isn’t a serious effort to build a third temple…just a few fanatics.
I didn’t think all, or even most, Christians – other than fans of the Timothy LeHaye books – believed in a pre-Tribulation Rapture.
When were we going to have the apocalypse again, GOM? I thought it was planned for Thursday, October 15th, 2037. But then last week, vanilla passed around that memo about having it Tuesday, February 14, 2012. Personally, I think that’s way too soon, and we’d never get the temple built and the AntiChrist born and raised fast enough, he’d only be six!
Anyway, I’ll see you at the next Secret Christian Cabaal.
Nonsense – everybody knows the End of the World is going to happen on January 19, 2038!
SDMB radical christian front?
SDMB radical christian front?
We’re the Radical christian front of the SDMB
SDMB radical christian front, Cawk.
Jesus is DEAD. Get over it. Have a happy Easter.
Evangelicals commit unethical acts to hasten the apocalypse for the same reasons that jihadists want a holy war. Both believe a holy war will destroy all infidels and bring about a world order based on Christian (or Islamic, in the case of the jihadists) laws and ideology. Any action taken towards this end is (in their perverse logic) moral and good. If it brings about a nuclear holocaust, well…the ends (a righteous world order) justify the means.
That’s why I believe that supporting this particular evangelical cause through the guise of charity is indeed unethical. Think of it this way. Hezbollah thinks it A-OK to wage jihad against the infidel. Hezbollah also happens to provide greatly needed social services to the Lebanese. Although they may do good works within their community, their political/religious ideology is still abhorrent.
There is also a catch to some of these charity actions, particularly the one Splanky talks about. Some Russian immigrants have become pawns in the desire to expand Israeli settlements. They have accused Christian re-settlement organizations of being deceptive. Apparently, the Russians thought that they would get jobs and be relocated somewhere inside Israel but instead found themselves living on contested land. Furthermore, evangelical beliefs often run counter to what is in the best interest of Israelis. Take the settlements, for example. Supporting settlement-building is determential to any chance of Israelis getting any peace or security. The majority of non-religious, non-extremist Israelis acknowledge this and want the settlements gone. However, according to evangelicals, these settlements play an important role in bringing about the End Times, since it is mandatory that all of Israel and Jerusalem remain solely under Jewish control.
I’m also puzzled as to why some Jews support evangelicals. Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, and Billy Graham have been quite outspoken in their support for Israel. But they have also been known to spout anti-Semetic comments when in the company of other evangelicals.
Anyway, why do you need to support these so-called pro-Israel evangelical groups when you can support organizations like the New Israel Fund ?
Well, it’s been my understanding that the concept of the “Rapture” is a relatively recent one, which was only theorized in the 19th century.
It’s certainly not mentioned at all in early Christian history.
Wow! So many interesting replies. I will admit my OP was a little unfocused, although I was definitely not under the influence, as the next post implies. Let me began:
So, the Israelites have a temple there, it gets destroyed, rebuilt, destroyed again, then some Muslims build a mosque on the same site, and you say that if the Israelits destroy that mosque to rebuild their temple they deserve to be squashed?
Menacham Began was fond of this idea when Israel was a very young country. Moshe Dayan put him in his place. The building of the Mosque is itself ancient history. If destroyed, it would be an atrociuos act in current history. Shoud I assume that you are in favor of this? It would be foolish for Israel to attempt this.
JtThunder asked:
Do you have ANY indication that they are planning to do so? Or that they are even considering it? If not, then I respectfully suggest that you refrain from such caustic remarks.
I said in my OP that even the current, conservative government had no intention of doing this. Also, did you read the link I supplied?
Splanky, I respect your thoughts. I was especially moved by your statement, “as a jew, it was disturbing and encouraging.” I feel that way about the situation. I am not a Jew, nor a very good christian. I do feel the Jews have earned their homeland, but I hate to see people live in squaler while their brand new neighbors enjoy a comfortable subsidized life based on their religion.
Many Jews are against this. Many Jews accept it because they need it, and ignore the reason they’re getting it because the prophecies are false according to Jewish scriptures. It is similar to a Jew getting a meal or a blanket from a church or something. Just take it as genuine kindness.
Shodan. When I referred to the radical SDMB faction, I was referring to Jersey Diamond and His4ever. I was hoping to not have to debate the logic of a 3000 year old covenent. You bring up some excellent points. Personally, I feel Israel showed much patience before doing what it had to do. I do not object to Israel maintaining order. I do question past actions which I feel are wrong. Many moderate Israeli’s feel that the settlements are wrong. Unfortunately, what promising potential of a Palestinian state has been crushed by Yasser Arafat. The Palestinians were better off under Israel.
I will look for cites. I can tell you that I have seen on National news a piece where evangelical churches were in fact giving money for the settlements, believing that the end is in fact near.
DeadJesus, you put the way I feel in words I could not come up with last night. Thanks.
I’m not sure exactly what you mean with this statement. Perhaps you could explain it to me.
“They” who?
“We” who?
and lastly…who’s version/idea of Hell is it that you are referring to?
Because it sounds to me (I may be mistaken), but it sounds to me that you are saying that members of the Jewish religion believe that Christians are destined to spend eternity in Hell.
If this is in fact what you are claiming, could you refer me a Jewish cite that teaches this belief. I would like to investigate this further.
Thanks…;j
Road Rash asks:
“Why are fundamentalist christians commiting unethical acts to hasten the apocalypse?”
First, I think I have to pinpoint exactly what reply Road Rash is really after.
The question “why” is often not in search of an explanation of causality or motivation.
In many instances it is not a question at all, but a condemnation of the factual behavior or deed underlying the question.
As far as I am cognizant of the English language and its actual communication psychology, I believe that is exactly what Road Rash is telling us in that semblance of a question.
If that is your interest, Road Rash, then I want you to know that I also find such an actuation from Fundamentalist Christians most irrational and deplorable.
Now, can we try to attempt some understanding of such a behavior?
The way I see it, such behavior is due to the failure or resistance to see the difference between the credal world and the real world, or between religious beliefs and the world of facts.
For Fundamentalist Christians there is no distinction between these two worlds; when there is a contradiction between the world of facts and the world of beliefs, the world of beliefs will prevail in their behavioral actuations than the world of facts.
A very glaring example of Fundamentalists’ stubborn insistence on the world of beliefs to the exclusion and denial of the world of facts, is their mental attachment to the creation account in Genesis, with their consequent uncompromising opposition to the fact of evolution and the implications of evolution.
Fortunately, the redaction of beliefs into behavior does not cause at present overwhelming death, destruction, and general mayhem for the rest of rational and facts-oriented mankind.
If Bush gets it into his head to also wage wars everywhere, owing to his religious belief to bring about the end times – and he does control the most terrible and effective war machines in the whole history of mankind, then we are really going to have an endless catastrophe brought about by religion.
And since Bush pictures himself to be God’s gift to mankind, then anything and everything he does is authorized by God, on a plane transcending conventional ethics and morality and humanistic principles.
That is why all men of good will and are rational and are facts-oriented should also maintain the distinction between the world of beliefs and the world of facts; and most important, educate religious people to accept this distinction and to always subordinate their beliefs to facts, by re-interpreting them in order to not be in direct contradiction to the world of facts, or at least not to act on their beliefs to the death, destruction, and general mayhem for the rest of mankind, who happen to not share their beliefs.
Susma Rio Sep
I do, and every church I’ve ever been to are pre-tribbers also.
We are to be saved from the wrath to come.
Vanilla, are you still presently in touch with this thread?
Can you see the distinction I am trying to convince religious people about, namely:
the difference between the beliefs world and the facts world; and that religious people should not ever subordinate the facts world to the beliefs world when there is opposition between them;
not specially when adhering to the beliefs world at the expense of the facts world would lead religious people to do killing, bombing, and perpetrate general mayhem?
Please let me know if you can appreciate this distinction.
Susma Rio Sep
I don’t know of any religious people who advocate killing, bombing and/or mayhem.
I don’t see where youre coming from.
That has nothing to do with what I posted.
Susma, I see the point to your question, but like vanilla, I don’t see the logic behind
How does being a Pre-Tribber (which I am not – my views on eschatology are very simple) lead to a call “to do killing, bombing and perpetrate general mayhem?”
Utterly ludicrous. We have no other moral standards than 2000 years ago when the romans destroyed the Temple. Right-minded people (as opposed to hateful fundamentalist-led crowds, as it happened in India) don’t destroy great monuments and major religious buildings of other people.
Considering that the destruction of Temple by the romans could justify the destruction of the mosque in our time and era, on the other hand, not only shows a pro-israeli bia, but also a pretty fucked and extremist one…
I’m missing this one. Are you saying that the facts world is based on events that are likely to happen in the future based on the observable past and present compared with a beliefs world of events foretold that may not be accurate or are based on religious sources?
Or are you speaking of events which have occured such as creation vs. evolution?
Also, and forgive me here if I have missed details thus far, but does anyone have a concrete idea of the scope of this particular problem? Frankly, I’m more inclined to think this is more of a beliefs world issue.
I honestly read this also on another board.
Don’t preach the gospel because the world will get better and prolong jesus coming.
Christianity is really getting weird in my oppinion.