Last week, in Jerusalem, I had the privilege of attending “THE COVENANT - The story of my people,” a musical theatre production put on by the International Christian Embassy. Over 10,000 non- Jews, along with a couple hundred Jewish Israeli guests like myself attended. The purpose of the event was to show support, solidarity and friendship towards the people of Israel.
I just thought I would take advantage of my mood to share with all of you my appreciation for the friendship that is extended to us from people all over the world. At a time when so many raise a threatening hand against us this friendship must not be taken for granted.
So for those of you who consider yourselves friends of the people of Israel I personally thank you and suggest that this thread continue with the following question; How can Jews and Christians, and others who feel that we have values in common work to better understand the nature of the bonds of friendship between us and how can we continue to pursue and widen our common agenda?
IMO, the only agenda the International Christian Embassy has for Israel is as a backdrop for Christ’s return. They aren’t concerned for Israel or Jews except inasmuch as they constitute a very important part of apocalyptic prophecy.
Folks like the International Christian Embassy support Israel so that the Jews will restore the Temple, confess that Christ is God, and help bring about the End Times.
Well Andros, maybe your right.But then again, maybe their religion has uplifted them morally to the point that they can tell the difference between wanton slaughter and self defence, in other words, between right and wrong. If we can agree that its wrong to break into someone’s home in order to shoot children in their beds then I share more common ground with the fundamentalist Christian than I do with much of the rest of the world. Our disagreement on eschatology is almost trivial in a world where radical evil gets wide popular support and innocent law abiding civillians are being murdered for no reason other than blind hatred.
In other words, in today’s day and age, we could use all the support we can get and for this reason Christian friendship is really appreciated.
Hmmm . . . it’d be interesting to have Alessan’s take on this, as another Israeli. And I know Blessedwolf lived there for a while. Dunno about Zev or Chaim or Dex, but it would be nice to get their views as well.
Dave,
I never meant to say that ALL fundamentialist Christians are on our side. I know that this is not the case. I just know that some Christians are friends of Israel and that my impression is that this friendship is very profound. It may be a small minority. I have no idea about the stats on this.
Minty,
I never said that having a few freinds made everything fine. Regardless of the outcomes, friendship is friendship and it has value.
And about your ass- I never said the Palestinians had no legitimate grievances. They certainly do. But their grievances against Israel in no way warrant the level of fanaticism and cruelty that characterizes the approach throughout the arab world towards Israel and the Jewish People.
Carnal,
The Christains I’m talking about have are committed to the people of Israel in a way that is very different from their commitment to help Christians wherever and whoever they may be. There was never any massive support among Christians worldwide for the Lebaneese Christians.
Actually, you did. You may recall the use of the words “no reason other than blind hatred.” Feel free to disavow that as hyperbole or poor expression, but “blind hatred” is not a “legitimate grievance.”
Whew, akohl, nothing like extending feelers for better understanding and getting bitten, is there?
I’m a Christian. There are Jews in my family, and we have a certain tenuous connection with the Jewish community. A couple of my significant others were Jewish.
If I had to pick something that stood between them – believe it or not – I’d have to pick individual’s ignorance of their own faith. The easiest way to bring Christians and Jews to appreciate one another may be for them to understand themselves better.
An example, which is a little scholarly, but won’t be loaded with too much emotional baggage: There’s a nearby store selling Jewish religious books. Wanting a broad perspective on a part of the Bible, I went in and bought a Jewish commentary which, being written hundreds of years ago, I felt certain would have a quite perspective. (Boy, was I right!) I mentioned it to a couple Jewish friends. They’d never heard of it. I asked a rabbi about it, and got a look of utter astonishment. “Don’t people read this?” I asked. “Well, some do, but it’s considered esoteric.”
Esoteric? A multi-volume set in a store that only sold a couple hundred titles? Add to this that it answered a few minor questions I’d had about the New Testament like a bright light had just been turned on.
“. . . you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” Sort of a SDMB idea.
I can’t help noticing that the Palestinians are conspicuous by their absence on the International Christian Embassy website. Oh, they’re actually quite conspicuous right there on the home page today, in the news, but it’s nothing good.
The ICEJ is totally, 100% a rah-rah “Go Israel!” undertaking, and the whole point is indeed to “restore Israel” to hasten the day of Armageddon and the Second Coming of Christ. According to Pre-Millenialist eschatology, Israel has to be restored as a nation before the rest of the Book of Revelation can happen–seals opened, Four Horsemen riding, Beast and Great Whore appearing, etc.
And, of course, the piece de resistance, the Second Coming of Christ.
So, um, yeah, the only reason they’re boosting Israel is so they can help prepare the Way for Armageddon, and the Second Coming. It’s got nothing to do with ecumenical understanding between Jews and Christians–it’s entirely self-serving. “As soon as we can get Israel restored, Jesus will come.”
And their Bible basis for all this “Bless Israel” stuff is, to me, frankly baffling. Not that I’m opposed to Christians being nice to Jews, and vice versa, but to actually formulate it as a doctrine of some kind, and to base it on Bible verses that don’t have anything to do with it, is…strange…IMO.
Genesis 12:3 doesn’t say Christians should bless the Jews, it says God will bless the Jews. It’s part of God’s covenant with Abram. God is saying, “If you will keep my commandments, I will bless those who bless you, and curse those who curse you.” It isn’t directed towards anybody else at all, Christian or Jew.
Isaiah 40:1 doesn’t say Christians should comfort the Jews. It says that the Prophet Isaiah should comfort the Jews. Isaiah 40:1 is familiar to fans of Handel’s Messiah as part of the great tenor recitative, “Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God…Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned…” Which command to “comfort Jerusalem” is directed towards the Prophet Isaiah. Or is the ICEJ also saying that Christians should inform Jerusalem her iniquity is pardoned? Seems a teensy bit arrogant to me–I thought only God had the power to forgive sin.
Psalm 122:6 is the Psalm that starts, “I was glad when they said unto me, Let us go into the house of the LORD”, praises Jerusalem, and goes on to say, “Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.” As it’s a song attributed to King David, it’s hard to tell how they think it’s directed towards Christians, although it’s difficult to argue with the basic sentiment. Yeah, we should all pray for the peace of Jerusalem, and while we’re at it, let’s pray for the peace of Stockholm, Singapore, and Springfield, Illinois while we’re at it.
Now, Romans 11:31 does command Christians to show mercy to the Jews, but it’s in the context of Paul’s preaching that the Christians need to accept the fact that just because Jews don’t accept Jesus as the Messiah doesn’t mean they’re going to Hell. He’s saying that the old covenant with Abraham still holds, and one way or another, the Jews are still saved, so all you new Christians, don’t be insufferable about your supposedly superior form of salvation.
So I don’t see that any of these verses calls for putting on a fancy-dress pageant, but hey, chacun a son gout.
So, you may ask, as I did, “Where do the rights of the Palestinians fit into all this?” Apparently, they don’t. All I could find, besides the “bad news front page”, was this.
Just as an aside–if I were Israeli, I’d be deeply insulted by the patronizing tone of this. It was my understanding that Israel prides itself on being a self-sufficient Modern Nation, and to hear these people say, “Oh, those poor benighted Jews, we see many insufficiencies in their culture, we’d better help them”, well, I’d be ticked off.
Anyway…
Is it just me, or is the phrase “food for needy Bedouin” just a tad patronizing, too?
BTW, no idea why they quote Isaiah 19:23-25. It says:
What has that got to do with a “reconciling influence with Israel’s Arab neighbors”? We should not only “Bless Israel” but “Bless Egypt”, too? But what about Assyria, which no longer exists as such? Who should we bless instead of Assyria?
Ok, it’s always nice to see so many non- (anti-?) Christians speaking badly for us.
Please explain to me why it’s bad for Christians to support Israel for religious reasons. Does there have to be more of a reason than “I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you”? And why does it matter that Israel figures heavily in our eschatology? That also means that our support of Israel is bad? It looks as though there is a lot of baseless hostility here, and no matter what Christians do, people like andros and minty green are going to have a fit and go into convulsions.
Anyway, no matter how much you guys rail and whine against Israel, they are a) our only faithful ally in that part of the world, and b) under attack by a group of people with no sense of morality or perspective. Israel is attacked on an almost daily basis with firebombs, guns, explosives, etc and we tell them “suck it up. It’s not politically expedient for you to defend yourselves.” Then when we are attacked using the same methods a single time our military completely dismantled an entire government? Can you say “hypocrite”?
To answer the OP,
It means a lot to me, at least, that our friendship is appreciated from at least some corners. As to our “common agenda”, I guess you could say that it’s recognizing that Christianity is a direct descendant of the Jewish faith, and that there should be no animosity whatever between us, and additionally to encourage whatever action is necessary for Israel to defend itself and put a stop to the terrorist attacks.
If it were up to me, Israel would lay utter waste to all the hostile nations around them and be done with it once and for all.
See, I support Israel and her people because they are a market-driven democracy, because they are a sovereign nation under attack, and because they are a sound and valuable trade partner and ally in a region where few such exist. I support Israel because it’s the homeland of friends and family. I support Israel because it’s a beautiful and awe-inspiring land. I support Israel because if its culture, its cities, its spirit, its people.
But it’s not because I’m hoping they’ll all convert to my religion and help bring about the end of the world. Hey, if you personally like the Jews, that’s great. But I know for a fact that many people who support Israel for eschatological reasons do so not out of any love for Israel or the Jews, but simply because without Israel the Pre-Mil prophecies cannot occur. I find that patronizing, dishonest, and vulgar.
Now then, you want to suggest I’m anti-Israel?
I pray every day that my cousin Asher and his family, including his newborn daughter, will live through the Intifada without being blown up by some psycho on the bus. I’ve attended temple. I’ve celebrated the Seder. I’ve been to more bas mitzvah than I can count. My family is Jewish, my heritage is Jewish, and large portions of my family tree were chopped off at Auschwitz and Bergen-Belsen.
So what say you avoid putting words in my mouth, Sparky?
Well it strikes me that if 10,000 “non-Jews” attended a function to show Christian solidarity with Jews in Jerusalem, that Palistinian ethnicity can be assumed in large part among the participants. Indeed is not the Jerusalem contingent of this denomination Palistinian ?
Other than the simple Christian /Jew dichotomy what other dichotomies are you refering to Collounsbury?
As a Christian, it warms my heart to read appreciation for the special love many Christians have for Jews from a member of the chosen people who have suffered for that distinction. Thankyou akohl
We should not only “Bless Israel” but “Bless Egypt”, too? But what about Assyria, which no longer exists as such? Who should we bless instead of Assyria?