Why are libertarians so wacky?

The BBQ Pit
1

Okay, maybe this belongs in the pit, or even great debates. Maybe it’s even been hashed to death in past times. But it’s new to me, so there.

I tend to agree with the libertarian philosophy of financial conservativism and social liberalism. I’ve even gone to a few party meetings. All the people I’ve met who are libertarians, including good friends are nuts.

Plus, I’ve never seen a libertarian elected to anything beyond assistant vice somethamahoozit, so it sure seems like a vote in that direction is wasted.

What’s the deal here?

2

THANK YOU. I was considering starting this thread myself just yesterday. What is the deal? I used to work with a passle of Libertarians and with one exception they were all nutty as fruitbats. the one that wasn’t nutty was drummed out of the party. She was the party treasurer and they accused her of stealing. A forensic accountant reviewed the books and found not a penny out of place. This convinced the party that she had to be stealing, because if she wasn’t stealing there’d be mistakes.

Then there’s the local party chair who’s an ex-con and has a Gallileo obsession…

3

Glib answer: Because the established parties don’t pay much attention to out-and-out wackos, since they’re bad for business. So the wackos go elsewhere.

Also, libertarianism has the Answer. Since they have the Answer, everything has to fit into it. If the peg is square, you just pound it hard enough to fit it into the round holes. Same as communists, for that matter.

“What we have here is failure to communicate.” – Strother Martin, anticipating the Internet.

www.sff.net/people/rothman

4

Well, it definitely doesn’t belong here. I could send it to Great Debates, but it will probably end up in the Pit anyway, so I’ll save David B and Gaudere the trouble and move it there directly.

Change Your Password, Please and don’t use HTML, as it has been disabled, but you can learn about superscripts here

5

Actually, I believe the Libertarians started out as a populist spin-off of dissidents with an actual agenda.
Through the years that agena has been buried and the party has become some kind of net that catches all kinds if hotheads who want to make the thing over in their own image. This usually spells the end of such groups.
In another time these folks might have been Know-nothings, AntiMasons, Free Soilers or maybe even BullMooses (although think of BullMooses as dissatisfied Republicans who came back into the fold).
Where groups like these get their power is their ability to influence the agendas of established parties that are alarmed by them.
When the party starts flying off in different directions that power is lost and the party loses relevance.

6

Stop and think for a minute about the essence of the Libertarian philosophy: total control over when and how you have to interact with others. In a libertarian society, the socially maladjusted would be perfectly free to refuse to deal with anybody they don’t like or are unable to get along with.

In some ways, it’s a chicken-egg scenario. Libertarians often come off as kooks because they so fervently proclaim that all society’s problems can be solved by trusting people to individually self-govern, a scenario that non-libertarians see is rife with problems and mistaken assumptions. And because they libertarians espouse total freedom, they tend to attract the kind of people who feel stifled by rules and laws. Plus, the essential lassiez-faire, live-and-let-live attitude that libertarians espouse makes it difficult to disavow the kookier elements of the movement. When your underlying philosophy is to promote individual freedom to think or say whatever you want, it’s hard to disavow the kooks.

7

RealityChuck wrote:

Pretty good analysis, I think. Libertarians think every problem man has ever encountered comes down to a question of property rights Communists think every problem man has ever encountered comes down to the oppression of the working class. It’s a thin line between a simple theory and a simplistic theory.

Plus, the beauty of the Communist analogy is that Libertarians go into fits when you compare them to Communists!

http://www.beginbids.com/ubb/smilies/icon25.gif

8

You are mistaken.

So long as all who participate are volunteers, even a communist collective is libertarian by definition.

Please understand that popular notions about libertarianism are akin to popular notions about atheism, Christianity, or anything else.

9

Okay,

I know I am different (that’s the beauty of being an individual) but never been called “wacky” before.

Oh, and BTW, I am pretty conservative in most of my beliefs, if there was no Libertarian party I would probably be a non-voter again. Oh and when I did vote, I voted Republican. That’s wacky!

10

Forgot – sticks and stones may break my bones…

11

TechChick, would you prefer maybe “zany”?

(ducking and running)

12

The Crown thought the Founding Fathers were pretty wacky, too.

After all, they held an unpopular notion that men should govern themselves in a free representative democratic fashion without a God-crowned, inbred monarch. They were liberal free-thinkers who lived off the land, growing their own food, wine and hemp. They were largely slave owning, opinionated, tobacco smokers and firearm owners who lived in huge, formidable mansions training to fight their government in militias and hoarding weapons. Ultimately, they staged a bloody revolution against the government AND the will of the general population of the colonies.

THAT’S ZANY!

Yet to be reconciled with the reality of the dark for a moment, I go on wandering from dream to dream.

13

I have to agree with the OP- I don’t think Libertarianism itself is wacky but some of the proponents definitely are. I’ve never been to a Libertarian meeting and so I have a hard time picturing a mild-mannered actuary as a member. During the 5 years I spent in Tucson, I met several self-described libertarians, all of them I would classify as wacky- the gun nut, the marijuana/psychadelic mushroom grower, the hippie who thought that requiring a driver’s license was unneccessary gov’t intervention, etc…

14

In the fall, I was posting pretty regularly to a message board devoted to a particular college football team. There was a poster on that board who was just like Libertarian. Every thread on the board devolved into a debate on libertarian philosophy. And this was on a football board for Chrissakes!!!

They finally had to create a separate board for political discussions, to try to lure that fanatic away, so we could actually discuss football.

What is it with these people??!!?? Why are they like religious zealots???

If it weren’t for some distinctive stylistic tics, I would have guessed that Lib might even be the same person that was posting on the football board. The fact that he isn’t just proves that all libertarians have that monomaniacal streak (or at least a substantial subset do).

15

zany?

Hmmm, never been called that before either. I may have been called weird for the following things:

I like to watch ballroom dancing, I find it elegant and so artistic. Same with ice skating, the dancing part not the pairs although pairs is cool too.

I spend hours and hours on the computer, but hey I am a tech chick. I can stay up all night working on a project, some think that’s weird.

As a woman I love football, hockey and auto racing…some think I am a freak, when watching football I am worse than some men I know.

As for my political views, I don’t think them wacky or zany. Less is better for all. Yes in a pure Libertarian government there are people that may be left in the dust but in the life of a person there is a lot of unfairness no matter what a government tries to do (including today’s govt). The intention is usually a good one but somehow the laws and regulations end up screwing more people in the long run.

Life is a gamble no matter what government you are living under, that’s the problem with being a human. Call that crazy, wacky or whatever but it’s truth. Life is an uncertain thing, if it were certain then it’d be quite boring.

I am not a gun nut, I don’t even own one, but I fear gun legislation takes away from honest citizens the right to protect themselves and their property. I recently read an article that Australia’s crime rate shot up after their strict gun laws came into force…if I find the article I will post it.

I don’t do drugs, I have, but the drug war has created a huge bonanza for crime and profit. The government makes a lot money off this program as well, not just from taxes but from asset seizures etc.

I am caring and compasionate, however I personally don’t want to help support those that don’t want to help themselves. I would prefer to help out those I feel most comfortable in helping, financially or otherwise.

Public education is in shambles. Our largest school district was going to place the ax on 5 schools in our community because of a budget deficit of 5 million dollars yet the district is going to give Intel a tax rebate to the tune of 4-5 million dollars if they move in to our city…where’s the logic in that? That’s corporate welfare plain and simple.

Social Security? There’s no security in the system. 15% of your income would be better handled by a private company to invest in in addition whatever else you want to invest for your retirement. For me that’s over 6 grand a year I could invest in a solid mutual fund that over the course of 10 years (my old mutual fund) averaged 20% gain each year (that included the stock drop in October 1987). I wish I had a financial calculator to give you an idea of what I am talking about.

I do believe that road contruction, police, firestations, etc. are a very important part of our society.

What I don’t believe in is:

Throwing people in jail for non-violent crimes.

No-Knock raids based on an annonymous tip – usually associated with the drug underground.

A military that is unaccountable for it’s expenditures.

A tax system that creates criminals out of ordinary people, the IRS is above and beyond the law.

Passing laws that force the Ten Commandments in a school.

Paying taxes for a bridge on the other side of the county that I will never use.

I could go on, but I think that those aren’t so outrageous.

To classify any particular group as wacky is kind of sad, from my view. Okay Okay, there was that Haley’s Comet group, that I will admit to being well off center but I hardly think that Libertarians as a group should be classified as wacky. If it is so wacky then why is it the third largest political party and gaining more and more members all the time?

My question in return is, what have the Democrats and Repulicans done for you lately?

16

techchick68 wrote:

Well, I’m not crazy about them either, but as I pointed out in the original question, they’re the ones who get elected. Which means they are the ones who get things done for me (us?), even if they aren’t always the things we like. Libertarians on the other hand argue amongst themselves.

For anyone who has never seen the Libertarian party in action, you should go to a party meeting. It’s better than the circus. And if you’re a pot-stirrer (not a troll, nonono that would be bad), you can have a good time throwing out lines like, “Taxes sure are high, aren’t they?” or “What do you think of the freedom in this country?” Then stand back and watch the fun!

17

Uh, Ballroom Dancing, Ice Skating, Racing & All-nite Computer Binges? You’re not helping us libertarians much here!

By the way, the reform party is larger than the libertarian party - although the LPA still has that propaganda on their homepage. The party has a looong way to go.

Yet to be reconciled with the reality of the dark for a moment, I go on wandering from dream to dream.

18

Are you kidding me? Are you living under a rock? I haven’t seen so much in-party “fighting” in a presidential primary since I became eligable to vote… :rolleyes:

19

Hey Sake,

Any stats on that? I would be curious. I will be calling the state so I can figure out who all the Libertarians are in my county. As much as I don’t want to bug them, I would like to at least know the amount of all party affiliations in my area.

20

I wasn’t referring to internal party fighting as a bad thing. I was referring to internal party fighting leading to no results.

Results are everything. Effort with no reward is masterbation. Non-electability in the political world is like building a product that doesn’t sell in the commercial world. It’s like writing a book that no one reads. It’s like talking with no one listening.