So there is nothing between being well-liked and being severely disliked?
holmes states
The answer is that Arab Jews driven out their homes by Arabs were absorbed into Israel and Palestinian Arabs were kept in camps to be used as pawns. Jews from other lands are not mistreated by other Jews as a general rule. There is some classism within Israel with Russian Jews and African Jews getting a bit of a prejudicial treatment but such a situation is not as pronounced as that described by the op. So play away.
December’s point is not invalid, but Col’s response is also legit. Arab governments and Arab’s of power generally mistreat and abuse those of less power under their control. It is not specific to Palestinians and it is something that Arab societies need to fix on their own. The US doesn’t help with its hypocrisy and support of friendly despotic regiemes even while toppling others in the name of human rights(?!).
Tom, the US contribution is therefore .0012% of US GDP and SA was .0050% of GDP. So SA, without all the other countries and peoples asking it for money and with its great loyalty to their brethern only gives four times of a GDP corrected contribution. Seems piss-poor to me. Ah, but you don’t count what goes directly to Hammas and other terror groups! THEN the numbers add up to being generous!
One of my main concerns about the Iraqi war was the occurrance of acts of retribution against those “favored” by Saddam. The Washington Post had an article several months ago about Kurds killing or driving out Arabs and Bedouins from terrority they considered theirs. I wasn’ t aware that Palestinians in Iraq were also targeted for collective punishment. The article only convinced me that the Palestinians need their own country. Doesn’t the scenario of a minority group despised either because they are perceived as more successful that the native population or because they are seen as uncivilized or inhuman sound familar to anyone else? The world has no love for the dispossed.
As far as Arabs mistreatment of Palestinians vs. Israeli mistreatment of Palestinians…this is like arguing whether slapping your spouse around is better than breaking every bone in their body. The point is either way, it’s wrong.
The answer is much less clear than that.
(a) There is an obvious structural difference between the Arab Jewish refugees and the Palestinian Muslims and Xians who fled. (i) They want(ed) to go back (ii) integration into host societies would tend to diminish such claims. Ergo you have a large difference in interest between the two groups, such that integration is not in fact comparable.
(b) Structural difference between the state interests. The Israeli state, in the interest of its territorial claims, has and had a strong interest in attracting settlers and integrating them. At the same time, w/o regard to any bad character on the part of the Arab states -and there is indeed that component but it’s well know- accepting the Arab’s position until recently that Israel was an illegit creation, it is obvouisly in their interest, political, not to absorb the refugees as part of their campaign to regain the lands. “Pawns” in a sense, but not in the cynical manipulative one you implied, rather it made and makes a degree of perfectly acceptable sense given the populations in question did want to go back.
Now add to this all kinds of cynical manipulation, tribalism and general clannishness, and one gets an unpleasant picture. However the difference in strategies arise from difference in situation, not bec. Jews are kind and welcoming and Arabs are not.
First, let’s get some numbers.
Taking the CIA figures for comparability,
US per capita income, ppp basis: $36,300.
Saudi Arabia per capita income, ppp basis: $10,600.
US about 3.4 times wealthier on a per capita basis.
Further to that, a great deal of Saudi charity passes through Islamic foundations, which whatever their flaws, are the ‘correct’ way for Saudis to do things.
Funny. However you unintentionally make a point here, as noted much Saudi donations flow through Islamic foundations, which in turn have a poor record of controls. At the same time groups like Hamas spend substantial amounts on social aid. Islamic political groups like them have a long record of buying influence by providing better and more effective charity or aid than corrupt state institutions.
What is good or bad in the end is another matter, and it is likely correct that even taking wealth differentials into account, the Gulf states could have and should have done better, although at the same time the degree to which they looked favorably on employing Palestinians as expatriate workers was a kind of aid in itself, perhaps in the long run better than cash grants and the like. The remainder of the Arab states are quite poor, I don’t know if a fair tally of aid and assistance, often in kind, would show genorosity or not, however just slapping some half assed figures around tells us little.
The point in the end being is that simple minded pseudo-comparisions, like december’s, are nothing more than political axe grinding. I have no patience for this particular one as he has done it in the exact same manner so many bloody times. The mindless smearing grows irritating - there is not an intention to debate in any real manner, only smear.