According to this article, Palestinians are now being treated badly in Iraq, in a way that mirrors previous bad treatment by Libya, Jordan, and Kuwait.
Have the Palestinians been treated badly? If so, why weren’t they given better treatment?
Xenophobia and clannishness.
Further to that, Paletinians working in the Gulf and elsewhere have typically been over-represented in upper-end jobs. On one hand they have a reputation for being more organized and much better educated than many other populations, on the other hand this can be resented. Much in the same way you see resentment for B1 Visa holders in the US.
In Jordan, for example, the Palestinians are the single largest group in upper management and the private sector. They represent a free floating ‘cosmopolitan’ group with often radicalized politics that their host states distrust, but are at the same time useful for the same reason.
Nice try december, your entirely opportunistic concern is however just that. In the present instance, despite the spin in the Telegraph, the issue appears to be general lawlessness and targetting of weaker, unprotected groups, not the targetting of Palestinians.
Nevertheless, he has a good point. Its not exactly clear to most of us why Palestinians should be the focus of so much of the energies of the MidEast governments while being severely disliked when they actually live in those countries. I appreciate your idea, Collounsbury, though I wonder if it isnt’ a matter of personal prejudice (stemming from what?) and public expediency.
After all, its always easier to give money to the homeles guy across town than to invite him into your home…
When december has a good point, I will acknowledge it. He does not have a good point, he’s playing his little ideological games.
It is not at all clear to me where you derive your impressions from. Did I say Palestinians were “severely disliked”? No I did not.
The expulsion from Kuwait was a State action taken to punish the Palestinians for percieved support for the invasion - and others besides them were included in the ‘purge’ - Jordanians for example, although some large percent of them were in fact Palestinian origin.
Libya is a similar case, and in general there have been Libyan native versus non-Libyan tensions arising from large presence of guest workers, Arab or otherwise.
Plain old xenophobia and clannishness.
Jordan, the last case, is a question of tribal politics and the peculiar history of the Hashemites reliance on the Southern tribes. North native Jordanians are rather more favorably disposed to their West Bank cousins than the Bedouine tribes, who again are… well tribal and clannish bastards in the end.
Lebanon is a case of the Palestinians being used in proxy warfare between Maronites, Sunnis and Shiites during the civil war and its run up.
Iraq right now is in utter chaos and lawlessness. There’s hardly any (meaning none) “anti-Palestinian” movement I have heard of in any of my multiple data sources. You do end up running into Palestinians in their diaspora all over the place as I said as rootless but fairly well-educated labor. As the Jews learned in their diaspora, being a weak foreign group in a country in chaos is never a happy thing.
In short, december is once more taking a fact and ripping it from its context in his little campaign to beautify Israel’s image and drive home his opinion that the Arabs are not worthy.
Another related issue is the rather small amount of financial support provided by wealthy Arab states to aid the Palestinian people. I have read that the EU and even the US give a lot more money to the Palestinians than do, say, Saudi Arabia or Kuwait.
I am fundamentally uninterested in running round collecting figures on aid figures to Palestinians. I will simply note that we see the continuation of december’s little “Arabs are Evil” campaign.
Factual data just gets in the way of a good analysis.
Maybe it does. Let’s see. Provide some factual data.
Er, no. That seems less a related issue, more a different tactic you’ve decided to use because Collounsbury hit the nail right on the head with regards to your original issue.
Just to back up Collounsbury’s point (not that he needs it) here’s a story about a different group being targetted by larger and more powerful ones in Iraq: Link.
Now to save a lot of frustration, how about you get to the point december? A good start would be to share your opinion regarding the two questions your OP asked:
Please, tell us what you think.
Simple answer, the Arab world has used the Palestinians in their war against Israel, the Palestinians have provided a convenient buffer between Israel and the rest of the arab world, as shown by the fact that very little in the way of financial help, apart from to the bombers has come from the arab world to the palestinians
How about instead of fact free “simple” answers someone go and bring some solid and verifiable data to the table.
This little subject, the relationship btw the Palestinians and the rest of the Arab world has been done before on the board - as almost always by december pimping his little whitewash game - and I am sick of the assertions.
Get some goddamned figures to support the view of lack of Arab support and what is “very little” and then we can have something approaching a discussion.
The US donations of around $100 million per year presumably add up to a total of at least a billion dollars, if not several billion dollars, depending on how long this level of support has been going on.
The Saudi total of $64 million plus “tens of millions of dollars” adds up to around $100 million.
So, the US appears to have donated at least ten times as much as Saudi Arabia – and perhaps quite a bit more.
Read your link again, december. Only $30 million is going to the Palestinians. So it’s not $100 million a year, and it’s not a total of at least a billion dollars.
And you left out this part of your cite:
[quote]
He referred in particular to the sum of 2.2 billion riyals (585.89 million dollars) provided by Saudi Arabia since the Madrid Conference of 1991.*
So let’s assume that the US has given $30 million a year since 1991. That’s 12 years, so about $360 million. The Saudis have given about $585.89 million dollars in that same span.
Looks like the Saudis are pulling more than their fair share.
Crap. Can someone fix the coding?
December, I’m slow…what’s your point?
It’s not, “look at how the Palestinians are treated by their own ‘people’…you see Israel isn’t so bad…!” is it?
Hey look, i can play too…Have the Jews been treated badly? If so, why weren’t they given better treatment?
or… to borrow from smiling bandit: Its not exactly clear to most of us why Jews should be the focus of so much of the energies of the World governments (pick a century) while being severely disliked when they actually live in those countries.
But I guess, its different for the Palestinians, right? At least look where you’re tossing those stones…but perhaps I’m misunderstanding.
Please clarify the point of your OP…
The UNRWA is the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East. It"provides education, health, and relief and social services to 3.9 million registered Palestine refugees in Jordan, Lebanon, the Syrian Arab Republic, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip." The entire US 2002 contribution of $120 million was for the Palestinians. Of that amount, $30 million was for “emergency activities in the West Bank and Gaza.”
Yes, I overlooked that. Good pickup.
The US has still given more than Saudi Arabia, but the amounts are closer than I thought they were.
We could use december’s original claim:
We might then look at each country’s GDP (from the CIA World Factbook):
US – 10,082,000,000,000
SA – 241,000,000,000
Which puts the Saudi pocketbooks at about 2.39% of that of the U.S., yet the U.S. is sending only 10 times as much aid, despite having just under 42 times the ability.
(Playing number games can be fun when it is rather pointless. Let’s just ignore the apples/oranges comparison on which we are basing these comparisons, to begin with.)
My mistake. Of course, the US is also much richer than Saudi Arabia, making it possible to give more.
As was told in the Bible, the widow’s contribution of two coins was more generous than the richer gifts made by the wealthy.
In the end, the US certainly gives more, but the Arabs are hardly abandoning the Palestinians to the wild.
Collounsbury
Of course he is. That does not mean he doesn’t have a good topic or a good point.
Err… I’m confused. Are you saying Palestinian immigrants are well-liked?
tomndebb
Although, don’t the Saudis effectively get to tax a much larger portion of that GDP? The US has low national tax rates.
Saudi buisnesses and citizens don’t pay tax, they only pay a 2.5% tithe, there is also no VAT. non-Saudi buisnesses do have to pay a tax which is a maxium 30%.
http://www.economist.com/countries/SaudiArabia/profile.cfm?folder=Profile-FactSheet