Sure. Now we’re probing to find out what you think the term “child support” means.
So far, it appears to mean “a sociological tool where we punish people who have extramarital sex by depriving them of the money they need to support the child.”
I still haven’t figured out whether lotharios are expected to pay or not under your ideal system, presuming they’re not foolish enough to get married before shtupping.
Again, not what I said, at all. Extramerital sex is not “punished” by having sex put of wedlock.
Personally, I have only ever had extramerital sex. I’ve also never had a child.
So, the receiving money bit would only be from the state, not from the father? They get child support whether or not they were married?
Seems like this is going to be too complicated. You do realize that if it is necessary to get a marriage license in order to get state support, then either the fathers would go along with a sham marriage, or they would refuse to do so, and leave the woman holding the bag.
Also, does the mere act of being married qualify them, or do they actually have to have a child with the person that they are married to?
And women are also entirely free not to have unprotected sex with a man to whom they are not married. It’s not so complicated.
Dude, your words are right there.
What the hell do you think this is supposed to accomplish, other than punishing the women who have kids out of wedlock?
Extramerital sex doesn’t have to lead to children. Extramerital sex is not being punished.
I’m literally tilting my head here. Presumably you do know where babies come from, and presumably you do know that contraception is not 100% effective. Thus, if you have a grasp of cause and effect, disincentivizing childirth out of wedlock is disincentivizing extramarital sex.
Well, that or saying that everybody should be getting abortions, but good luck getting people to do that.
In an ideal world, sure.
But, as we have been discussing, this is not really an ideal world.
Give proper access to birth control, including abortion, and educate fathers as well, then we can maybe talk. Though that still isn’t going to get you 100%. You are going to be left with kids who are quite literally being punished for the sins of their father.
I don’t know that leaving the entirety of the responsibility on the mother and child is going to incentivize the fathers to do their part in being responsible either. It does take two to have a child.
Would a father that has a kid out of wedlock have any accountability?
I mean, I have had young women tell me directly that they don’t worry about paying for their child because they won’t be expected to.
Let’s not be dishonest, contraception is highly effective. The vast majority of people who have “accidents” are not using any contraception at all, or not using it properly or consistently.
I don’t know how true that is.
Even outside of actual legal rape, there is still quite a bit of coercion that can go on that leaves them not entirely free.
I agree that it does happen, yes, but it doesn’t account for the majority of cases. Not even close.
I do agree with giving proper access to birth control and abortion, and educating fathers on the risks they are taking.
And I’ve had people tell me all sorts of anecdotes. I wouldn’t base policy off of that.
But, you are saying that you have spoken to women who are so ignorant that they think that their child would be provided for even though that is not the case, and you are saying that by having a policy that they have to be married, that they would behave differently?
I’ve had men tell me that they refuse to use condoms, because they are going to be gone in the morning, and that any pregnancy that results is none of their business.
Don’t imply I’m being dishonest, please.
And let’s be clear - you’re saying fuck the children of people who have accidents, or “accidents”. That’s the official policy you’re proposing.
Are the deadbeat dads going to be required to pay the child support in your proposal (to the state, presumably)? Or are you incentivizing men to ‘forget’ their condoms and such?
Anyway, I just visited the bathroom, and while I was in there, my boss reminded me that if I don’t get working on my closing paperwork, I’m going to be here all night.
What an asshole he is.
Pick this up later, but we should probably get a room (thread).
Seconded. Hell, this entire “lets change black culture” argument should be taking place in some other thread.
You are being dishonest. Birth control, when properly used is exceedingly effective. If a man “forgets” his condom, the couple shouldn’t be having sex unless they are OK with a pregnancy occurring.
If a couple is married and the women becomes pregnant, yes a man is entirely responsible for providing for that child whether or not the couple stays together.
Good lord you haven’t thought any of this through, have you.
And do not call me dishonest outside the pit.
Explain how I’m wrong.