:rolleyes: Great. So all of us women with great personalities, but who aren’t hot may as well give up now because no guy will take a second look at us based on personality but will go and convince themselves that the really hot girl over there with barely enough brains to fit in a teaspoon is fantastic.
Well, yes there is that. However, I have been there. back in high school I was very good friends with this guy. I developed feelings for him. I told him how I felt about him. He told me that he didn’t reciprocate those feelings but didn’t want to lose the friendship. So, you know what I did? Instead of ignoring him, freezing him out of my life etc etc, I dealt. Yeah, I spent long hours at night, at home crying about it, but I never ever did anything to hurt his feelings over it. He asked me on help on how to woo this girl he liked. What did I do? I gave him advice as a good friend, advice, I will hasten to add, that got him the girl. Did I act like a brat, ignoring him, being barely civil to him? No, I just carried on as if nothing had happened.
The point I’m trying to make here is that there are friends who are your friends no matter what, and if feelings aren’t reciprocated, they’ll deal. There are others who will make it to be all your fault, like the guys in the OP, and who may well only be friends with you because they want to date/shag you/whatever.
Tremmie, why the heck should her so called friends have the right to essentially say to her “us or the new man in your life?” True friends may be jealous, may be hurting, but a true friend will put the friendship over those feelings of hurt and jealousy.
For what it’s worth, I agree with you totally about what the guys in question should do. However, in my experience, too often it is the woman in question that tries to ease her own conscience about rejecting a man by prolonging the relationship. Inevitably this involves the man having to put in time, effort, money for the woman’s attention while her ‘special favors’ (not just sex, but romantic love in general) are kept just out of reach. A hug here, a kiss there, an ‘I love you’ said lightly in the midst of conversation, finding a shoulder to cry on when the chips are down…all just enough to keep a man thinking, “well, maybe today she’ll realize that I’m good enough for her, aren’t I doing everything a good lover should do?.” And quite often, this relationship prevents the man from looking for, let alone making, healthy romantic connections.
Yes, the man should stronger- does this absolve the woman of all blame? Too often they are too concerned about being the one to ‘break up the friendship’ to see how they are ripping their ‘friends’ to pieces emotionally.
Like I said…it’s almost cliché. How anyone can claim ignorance of how this works is a mystery to me. Whatever gets you through the night, I guess.
:rolleyes: Did you miss the part when she said they did not wish to be friends? Neither of them ever said “us or the new man” She said “i do not want a relationship/have sex with you” and they said “i do not want to be your friend”, why is her decision any more valid than theirs? just because you were willing to put your feelings aside to keep a man who didn’t feel the same way about you happy does not mean its the right or healthy thing to do.
I dunno Jenny, I can’t explain it. For myself, I always figure that if I like you well enough to want to date you, then I certainly like you well enough to want to be friends. But I may not be typical.
So Tremmie are you telling me if someone likes you as more than a friend and you don’t feel the same way that it is impossible for you to still be this person’s friend? I’m sorry but I find this incredibly sad.
Its not impossible of course, but it is certainly a valid choice. Why would you want to be friends with someone if you are just going to be totally miserable like in Angua’s example just to spare the other persons feelings? You can both find other friends where neither person suffers.
Well, handy the truth is not always a thing of beauty. I am willing to bet that over 75% of males will agree with the Ladder Theory. Like the author said, some of the remaining 25% are gay. Said theory is not as perfect as the author claims, but it will do until something better comes along. Newton still had a good theory, even after Einstein came along.
How many men have ever said that they “just want to be friends?” And how many of those that said it were just prolonging things in the hope of something else. Men can be friends with women, but never because she wants it to be that way. Being a friend should never be a demotion.
Agreed. Except that they shouldn’t have remained friends with her after they realized they couldn’t have her. Seems like they were biding their time, just in case she changes her mind someday …
Stonebow
Also agreed.
So let me add to the OP (and to all women everywhere, to be fair to the men everywhere whom I have already addressed) : You need to be aware that sometimes men will fall for you and you will not fall for them. You are not doing them any favours with the “Let’s still be friends” routine. It may be good for your ego to have an adoring fan around but it’s not fair to him. Make your feelings clear to him: I am not interested in having a relationship with you. And be strong about it, because if you give ‘signals’ everything will get complicated. Also, sometimes they are in love with you and you don’t even know it. (Because sometimes they tell themselves, and you, that they are not.)
cowgirl…very valid points! I think people should be held accountable for their own actions. If you know someone likes you only as a friend and you choose to maintain a realtionship with this person they are not “stringing you along”…you are doing this to yourself. How is it this other person’s fault when they have made their position quite clear?
This would be true if it wasn’t for the fact that there is plenty of women who would change their mind eventually and go out with someone they rejected previously. Persistance DOES pay off sometimes, and as long as shes not with someone else there is still a small glimmer of hope. Kinda silly i know, but no one ever claimed people acted rationally when they where in love
[QUOTE] Originally posted by Hellboy37
cowgirl…very valid points! I think people should be held accountable for their own actions. If you know someone likes you only as a friend and you choose to maintain a realtionship with this person they are not “stringing you along”…you are doing this to yourself. How is it this other person’s fault when they have made their position quite clear?
[Quote]
Its her fault when shes the one tryin to keep the friendship going! She’s not interested in a relationship, they are not interested in a friendship! comprende?
so, where do you folk stand on this situation? i’m not going to even pretend that this is hypothetical.
lad and lass meet, become acquaintances, then over a number of years become closer and closer friends. throughout all of this time, said lass continues her romantic life as per, and continues to meet and befriend other men. after about four years, lad and lass are entrenched within a group of close friends, one other girl, the rest male, some gay, some straight. lads best friend and lass both become unexpectedly single at the same time and develop a mutual appreciation society. lad takes best friend aside and confesses deep attraction for lass as best friend realises his. lad never ever makes any obvious move on lass, preferring to keep his love one sided (and one handed presumably). best friend asks lass out, they kiss, move in together and live guiltily ever after. lad leaves the country. lass finds out the whole sorry tale and feels, betrayed, cheated, bizarrely guilty.
it’s not that i give a shit if a man wants to sleep with me, i’m a grown up and i pretty much get that men want to sleep with women, any one will do, the nearer the better, etc etc. i don’t think this is necessarily a bar to friendship. there are all sorts of levels of social interaction, and sometimes a bit of sexual tension is fun. i think that men can differentiate between different types of relationships, and that they are ( some are) interested in having friendships with interesting people, whatever their sex/sexual orientation. BUT, having a secret love for someone whilst ostensibly being friends makes that person an unequal partner in the relationship, for me it made me question everything he said and did ( was that thing because i was right or because he wanted to get in my knickers, was that trip something he wanted to do or was it to get in my knickers), i felt, fundamentally, that i had been lied to. what do you lot think?
I just had to say that this struck me as incredibly sad. The reason why friends are friends is because you can choose them, and because of this, they don’t (usually) treat you like shit. If that’s what I was into, I’d just hang out with my family. Seems like a martyr thing…what did YOU get out of this friendship?
I’d also like to say that after reading the Ladder Theory…that is the most brilliant thing that I have read in a long while.
If you develop a friendship with a woman, and you would like to take it to a new level but she wants to remain friends, that you should continue to make yourself available to her and never date another woman as long as you are friends? You should drop everything to console her, and continue as if you were still interested in her until she tires of you? That you must remain friends and true to her even if her new boyfriend hates you? Regardless of how it’s tearing you apart inside, you wouldn’t want to hurt her feelings, now, would you?
Yes, it’s the guys’ problem, but getting in their face about their feelings is just wrong. You can’t choose your feelings; you can just deal with them. Anything else is a control game.
All right, guys, it’s simple. Say you and this girl meet. The two of you become friendly, and then you decide you want a little more. She says she’d rather just be your friend. Here’s where you make your decision: Either you make a brave attempt to put your feelings aside and remain friends with her, or you say, “Sorry, I can’t,” and move along. But if you’re going to be her friend, you have to be her friend. You can’t just hang around with her trying to convince her to love you. And you can’t just ditch her when she starts dating someone else. Even if your emotions are still too strong, and your pain is too much, you can at least be honest about it. Tell her that her new boyfriend is making things awkward and you need some distance, but don’t just drop off the face of the earth the moment she starts making eyes at some new man. That’s just being passive-agressive.
No one can control who they’re attracted to. It isn’t a matter of choice. You make the choice when you decide to shove your romantic inclinations aside and be someone’s friend. But if you can’t do it, have the grace to be honest about it. Don’t just vanish.
I have to admit that I’m a male completely befuddled by the “let’s just be friends” plea from countless women. Why am I confused?
I thought we were friends.
Maybe it’s just me. I can’t quite define what the “let’s just be friends” thing means to women. Let’s see… we’re going out once a week but we’re not sleeping together. I buy you dinner occasionally. Sometimes we watch a movie or play cards. I lend you a couple of CDs. I take you to a baseball game. We talk on the phone every few weeks about something that’s bothering you. But then you say you “just want to be friends?” What? What does that mean?
I may be confused on the “let’s be friends” because I don’t know what the expectations here are. Let’s see… that would mean you want me to continue to buy you things and send you cards… you would want me to continue to watch movies with you when you’ve nothing else to do… cheer you up when you’re bored… you’d want me to continue to offer stuff to you and pay for things and entertain you… I would continue to commiserate with you over your bad day at work/school… and… then… what? When you find a real boyfriend, you’ll just stick me on a shelf somewhere? If we suddenly became “just friends” would that mean you’d occasionally pay for something? Would that mean that I’d just be available when your real boyfriend wasn’t busy? Obviously I’m doing something wrong now, so how can I do less of the same thing I’m doing now so we qualify as “friends?”
I have heard the “let’s just be friends” line before and I have come to the conclusion that I don’t know what it means. It’s not her fault, it’s mine. I’m not receiving the communication she’s sending. She obviously means well – from the “just friends” women I have received birthday cards and so on – but I’m not sure what’s expected of me.
Like most guys, I have a lot of my ego tied up into doing things right and not making mistakes. We are trained from birth in the art (and illusion) of competence. Of confidence. And the “just friends” line, to me, hands me a directive I’m not sure how to complete because I thought I was doing it right.
I suspect that it’s up to you, OP, to define what you mean by “just friends.” I imagine they don’t know how to just be friends when you obviously have someone else in your life. This is a guess, but they might even think you’d want them out of your way now that you have a main squeeze. I have to guess they’re not doing it to intentionally hurt you; rather, they’re trying to guess how to step out gracefully because they think that’s what’s expected of them.
Well, I recently had a girl I had been dating decide to take advantage of the option to date other people we had agreed to give each other, but had not taken advantage of for four months. I got upset, then apologized and agreed she’d done nothing wrong, but now she doesn’t want to date me at all…and I was OK with that too, because I was really attracted to her mind first and I like her a lot in other ways, but she acts like she doesn’t even want to be my friend.
Why? He was my friend first and foremost. My friend. Because he didn’t reciprocate the feelings I had for him, I was not going to make him suffer. I was the one who had to deal with things, not him, so I did.
Really? From the OP it looks like that they had had this entire exchange, they resolved issues, and decided to stay friends. Then, when she got a boyfriend, they decided that they couldn’t hack it anymore.
Well, excuse me for putting my friends first. FYI, I got over those feelings, very very quickly, and he is still a damned good friend to me today.
