And here is the crux of the problem. You have steadfastly refused to consider the possiblity that not all fundamentalists are trying to hold you down. I’ve given you the example of my brother which so far you have completely ignored. Others have explained to you that they are fundamentalists who aren’t against you or your wishes to be married. Oh, I’m sorry. I forgot. All fundies hate gays! All of them! Every last one of them! Just like all blacks eat fried chicken and watermelon and all members of the SBC have piles of beer cans outside their trailers and are illiterate.
I’ve shown that it’s possible to believe that the world is 6,000 years old and that we were created from dust six days later and still firmly believe in the separation
of church and state. But you are obviously comfortable with your misconception that no fundamentalist, not a one, takes to heart the “Love your neighbor as you love yourself” rule, which I consider the fundamental principle of Christianity. They are out there, and they aren’t all a part of the Religious Right.
Kind of like “all religious rights are fundies, but not all fundies are religious rights?” I can almost go along with that, but like others around here, you haven’t quite convinced me that people who say they’re fundies (in the most commonly understood sense of the word) actually are fundies.
I’ll tell you one thing: if I disagreed with the religious right’s stand on these issues, I sure as hell wouldn’t classify myself as a fundamentalist. Only a small percentage of people will separate “you” from “them” and you’ll be getting a bad rap for no reason.
I can point to half a dozen well-funded, well-organized groups out there based on fundamentalist christian doctrine that are fully engaged in the battle to try and keep me and the people I love from being equal under the law in this country.
And no fundamentalist organizations who oppose them.
There are certainly some nice fundies who don’t hate gay people. In which case, I advise them to get the hell out of their bigoted and repressive churches, and find somewhere to worship that isn’t involved in the oppression of minorities.
To the contrary, I have explained that your brother’s example is irrelevant. One dissenter, who isn’t even a real fundie, does not invalidate the existence of the majority position.
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Others have explained to you that they are fundamentalists who aren’t against you or your wishes to be married. Oh, I’m sorry. I forgot. All fundies hate gays! All of them! Every last one of them!
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They may not hate gays, but they do believe that gays are unrepentant sinners. Fundamentalists believe in Biblical inerrancy, and so they believe that the anti-gay passages in Leviticus and Romans are God’s final and utter condemnation of homosexuality. Fundies cannot be pro-gay, or they cease to be fundies.If your True Scotsman was born and raised in Atlanta, maybe he’s not a Scotmans at all.
Here you demonstrate that you do not comprehend the difference between definition and attributes. Blacks are defined by the color of their skin, not by their diet. A black person may eat chicken, pork, or burritos, but the essential quality that makes him a black person remains unchanged. If a person has blond hair, blue eyes, was born in Goteborg and is named Sven, then there’s a high probability that he’s not black.
Thus with fundies. Fundies are not defined by their socio-economic status, but by their acceptance of the Five Fundamentals (although I’d wager there’s a strong correlation between lack of education and fundie affiliation). I mock fundies like I mock Klansmen, Nazis, and other members of organized hate groups. The religious jackasses who militate against my right to have my relationship legally recongnized by the state deserve every drop of venom
I can muster.
I’m a Sunday school teacher at a Lutheran church. I believe the Bible is true. I believe homosexuality is a sin (for the record, no worse than the thousand sins I commit every day).
However, I don’t think the government has the right to do anything about it. I believe Bush’s amendment (like a lot of what he’s done) is going to do more harm than good.
So am I a fundie? Is there a test somewhere I can take?
It’s been acknowledged time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time that not all fundamentalist Christians are antigay activists.
It has been explained time […] after time that we are protesting most loudly against THOSE FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIANS WHO **ARE ** ANTIGAY ACITIVISTS, and criticizing, though not quite as loudly, THOSE FUNDAMENTALISTS CHRISTIANS WHO ARE **NOT ** ANTIGAY ACTIVISTS, BUT BY WHOSE SILENCE THE ACTIVIST FUNDIES ARE ENCOURAGED. Period. Specifically and period.
If your brother is in the first group, he’s a target of my and gobear’s anger. If he’s in the second group, he’s a target of our . . . diminished respect. If he’s NOT IN EITHER GROUP, then he’s NOT A TARGET OF THIS THREAD.
So take your defensive semantic bullshit and shut the entire fuck up.
You are, indeed, a fundie, but not the worst kind. You answered two out of three test questions in a manner that breeds ill will to people that just want to be in loving relationships, and you will probably pass your ridiculous beliefs to your children (who may or may not behave as politically passively as you do). The fact that you don’t want to prohibit gays from living the American Dream is a good thing, but labeling love as a sin is definitely a bad thing.
Dang. I hate to do things half-assed. I suppose gobear will be along shortly to comment on my troglodytic nature. Use short words if possible, please; like all the members at my church, I only have the equivalent of a 3rd grade education.
Your tactics are winning a lot of people over to your side, aren’t they? You’re not going to convince any fundamentalists that your side is right if you keep screaming “homophobe” in their face. And before anyone else says it, I know that word hasn’t been used yet in this thread, but isn’t that basically what you’re doing?
I’m interested by your persistent use of loaded words like “screaming.” This is a message board, an electronic print medium, and so screaming is literally impossible. But when you falsely accuse Lissener and me of “screaming,” it’s just a not-so-subtle way of discrediting our message without actually engaging in reasoned debate on its substance–it’s the same tactic used by Jack Chick when he depicts a science teacher as a wrinkled and foul-tempered bully. It’s a low and dishonest bit of rhetorical trickery of which you ought to be ashamed.
Dude, you asked a question and I answered based on your admission that you believe the literal word of the bible (which is a basic trait of a fundamentalist, using the definition most of us have been working with here) and the fact that you believe homosexuality to be a sin, based on biblical writings. If the shoe fits…
I don’t know why you brought Gobear’s name up…sounds like you’re picking a fight.
I think what Gobear and the others are saying is that you can’t have it both ways.
It’s all well and good to say you don’t believe the state should inference in Gay marriage, but in the next breath you say homosexuality is a sin.
It’s crazy.
It likes saying you don’t believe that there should be states laws against blacks going to school, but you pull your kids out of the school once a black kid enrolls in it.
As is your right…but don’t expect that black kid or his parent’s to understand that you really don’t hate him…just their sin of being born.
You’re right. The only person that’s done any screaming in this thread is lissener, but he wasn’t screaming at the fundamentalists. He was screaming at me. I apoligize and won’t do that again.
He is, but I am not planning on giving him what he wants.
Those are not contradictory statements. It’s logically consistent to believe that homosexuality is a sin, and that one’s religious opinions should not affect the question of civil equality. I despise fundies, but I also support their right tto air their opinions freely. One wins a debate by defeating an opponent’s argument, not by stifling it.
Now if Slacker said that homosexuality is a sin, but he’s not a homophobe, then we would have a contradiction.
I don’t believe that my personal thoughts on the matter should be the law. That’s crazy?
Isn’t he the OP?
The only reason I’m posting is to figure out what exactly a “fundie” is. A lot of people here seem to think that all Christians share the same beliefs. Labeling a group of diverse people with one derogatory word is the exact opposite of fighting ignorance.