That’s how I remember it too. Wasn’t Monica coerced into giving up the details? If not for Linda Tripp, we never would have found out. I guess I just don’t get xtisme’s point. How would one go about “picking partners that won’t go public”? When you’re looking for a slut who’s willing to service a married man while he’s chatting on the phone in his office, you’re supposed to make sure she is of impeccable character?
I can understand criticizing Clinton for having an affair, but for not “picking a partner who won’t go public”? Hmmm…
I think people get upset about this for the wrong reasons. It’s not that he cheated on his wife and denied it, It’s the fact that it was with an intern. If it was some random woman, or even some celebrity: no problem. But Monica Lewinsky was someone who he had a lot of power over, and a certain amount of responsibility for.
If a senior partner at a law firm got a blowjob in his office from summer intern he would be fired on the spot. Same deal as far as I’m concerned.
You know, when this was big I used to wonder why Clinton took such a risk just to get a little on the side. I mean, come on, nobody is so desperate for sex (without emotional attachment) that they’re willing to risk throwing away everything they have for it!
Then I thought about it. The Presidency, for most holders of the office (those who are not convinced that they are instructed directly by God, and who actually do more than set high level policy guidelines, not that I’m referring to anyone in particular :D) has got to be just about the worst job on earth in terms of stress and exhaustion. The fact that ambition drives people to run not only for election, but re-election doesn’t negate this; people often have conflicting feelings. But look at how most presidents age physically while in office (Reagan excepted, but he was another whose executive style was highly delegatory <is that a word?>). I have an idea that insofar as he thought about it at all, Clinton thought: “Well, if I get caught, at least I won’t have to do this job anymore!” I suspect most highly ambitious, driven, and very stressed people have a part of them that desperately wishes that some circumstance would come along and force them to stop doing whatever it is they are so stressed about.
I don’t have a cite, but I believe that’s not usually the case. The higher up one is in the organization, the more power one has to decide one’s own fate, and the greater the ability to ignore or cover up adverse behavior.
There is also a great tendency to circle the wagons if someone near the top is accused of wrong doing. It’s only until some measure of public outcry occurs that the publicity forces the big shot to leave the organization.
Every place I’ve worked at (including the company I presently own), sexual harrassment is grounds for dismissal. Now, I’m not sure that Mizz Lewinsky was sexually harrassed, though its true that Clinton would have had considerable power over an intern. However, from everything I remember about this thing, she was pretty willing…even eager. So the sexual harrassment angle is probably off in this case.
You are simply wrong about the higher up in an organization the more they are free to do as they please from this standpoint…especially in a law firm. Its bad publicity for the firm or company and I’ve seen my share of managers, VP’s and even presidents of companies go down in flames over a sexual harrassment scandal. They might try and hush it up with money, but if it goes public, they guy (or girl these days) who was responsible for the harrassment is toast…no matter who it is.
O.K., now I think I get the point being made. If Clinton had an affair with a movie star, for example, as Kennedy did, it would have been less scandalous than someone who is an underling of the president. Yeah, that’s a good point.
To be honest, I remember being disappointed in Clinton when he didn’t come clean about the affair. I remember thinking that it would have been an opportunity for him to really show some character, and just go on TV and admit that he’s human and made a mistake, and apologize to his wife, right there on TV. That would have been classy IMO.
Perhaps you are right and I’m mis-remembering things and Monica was coerced. Certainly if thats true then my arguement about ‘picking partners’ was wrong in this case. However, what I meant was, my rememberence was the Mizz Lewinsky was pretty young (wasn’t she in her 20’s at the time) and pretty flighty and air headed. Not exactly someone I’d pick for discression. Not if I were Billy boy and could pretty much have my pick of discrete partners who would do the nasty with me. You’d want (I would think) someone a bit older, a bit more intellegent, and a lot more discrete.
If I’m President of the US and looking for a slut to service me in the office, hell ya I would want her to be discrete…or at least easily bought off to keep her mouth shut (except when I WANT her to open it, but we won’t go there). After all, we kind of know that OTHER US presidence were getting similar treatment, but they were bright enough to at least be discrete about it…or pick women who could keep their mouths shut about it.
However if Monica was forced against her will to go public, to keep her DNA stained blue dress, etc, then my arguement certainly breaks down.
Kind of straying away from the OP, though I suppose its been pretty much answered at this point…it was pretty much a no-brainer in any case. A better question is, would ANY President have done differently and come clean in public if put on the spot? My answer to that is, no.
He already had someone older and more intelligent - his WIFE. He obviously didn’t want her.
At any rate, I do remember Monica not necessarily being a blabbermouth, but that she ended up between a rock and a hard place because of the relentless investigation, and was forced to tell all. But my memory of it isn’t that great; it already seems like a long time ago.
You’re probably right. I guess I just keep hoping…
Maybe Jimmy Carter would have. That’s the only one I can think of.
I remember thinking at the time, “Boy, if this had happened during Nixon’s term, they would have found Monica Lewinsky floating in the Anacostia River.”
Just to return to a certain historical perspective, Clinton lied about Lewinsky because, well -
[cranky Republican hat ON] Clinton lied about everything, especially his extracurricular activities. Remember Gennifer Flowers? And a batch more women, including (IIRC) Miss Alabama. [cranky Republican hat OFF]
[Moderate hat ON] Clinton was under investigation for sexual harassment of Paula Jones. Part of the investigation was to see how he behaved towards women who worked for him. He figured he could lie about his relationship with Lewinsky, she would lie as well, and there would never be any way for Starr to prove otherwise. He didn’t know that Lewinsky was skimping on her dry cleaning bills, nor that Linda Tripp would wear a wire and get Lewinsky on tape confessing. Didn’t Bricker cover this?
Clinton thought he could get away with it, if everybody just stuck to their story. He got a lot of that, for whatever reason. Webb Hubbell and Susan McDougall went to prison rather than testify against Clinton.
[Tears moderate hat OFF, throws it to the ground, and stomps on it]
In their book White House Confidential: The Little book of Weird Presidential History, Gregg Stebbens and Jim Morris assert that Nixon did indeed have an extramarital affair, though it probably ended before he became president. And the woman involved lived out her natural lifespan in northern California, thank you very much.
I am a bit puzzled by the argument that it would have been better if Clinton had found a woman whose silence could be bought. If you’re paying X dollars to a someone to keep them quiet, the story will be all over the papers the minute that someone with X + 1 dollars finds that person.
(remember that little smirk that you got along with the “meaning of is”.
I say this because he had two distinct opportunities to avoid disaster.
The day after the election in Nov. '96 he could have settled with PJ, (using 300 k of the insurance companies money yet)
, All he had to say was, Paula, I’m sorry I was an asshole.
Now, if youi are the governor, and youi send a highway patrolman out to pimp for you, you are already an asshole, whether you compound the yuck by waving your flagpole (Rico Suav-ay…) or not.
Worse still. At the deposition, when he is asked, did you have sex with this monica chick,
he rises to his full six foot four, and says
“fuck you–I am a married man, the president of the united states, shove your question up your ass.:”
and walks out.
The penalty.
The liability phase of the paula jones trial is ended, and ; Clinton is presumed to have harrassed. His lawyer can still dispute the extent of the damages to which Paula is entitled, and meanwhile, there is no actual finding one way or another (if that matters), merely a legal conclusion which at most would in some future trial prevent clinton from litigating the “asshole” factor.
The case would still have settled, as it ultimtely did, but perhpas the para;metgers of the settlementg negotiagtions would shift upward an order of magnitude (at most)
big fucking deal
So he lied because he loved getting away with lying. Only this time…
You’d think that the far right would be more understanding of Bill’s wanderings – after all, it’s an article of faith among them that Hillary is a vicious ballbuster, frigid icequeen, and/or misandrist lesbian.
Your quote: “Contact with the genitalia, anus, groin, breast, inner thigh, or buttocks of any person with intent to arouse or gratify the sexual desire of any person.”
She gave him a blowjob, he did not return the favour, so by this definition, Lewinsky had sexual relations with Clinton, but Clinton did not have sexual relations with Lewinsky.
Yes, it seems stupid, but the stupidity lies with the person who drew up that definition.
I am a conservative and religious american. If, as blowero wrote, he had admitted that he had made a very human mistake and apologized, I would have respected him for his honesty and it would have been over as far as I was concerned. I was very disappointed that he lied and continued to lie up to the point where he was basically forced to admit the affair.
[sub]However, I do admit that I’m a “bad” conservative and religious american because I believe in gay rights and I’m pro-choice, so that may skew your results.[/sub]
I’ll have to admit I’ve more or less forgotten at this point. Would someone please refresh me on what the sequence of events were that brought the Monica dalliance to the fore? Was Tripp shopping the information?
He obviously didn’t want her.