What source do you have for this? The Bible certainly doesn’t record Judas’ age, so I can’t imagine anyone would know. We’re not even sure exactly how old Jesus was.
He was 33.
30 something
The Jewish age of majority is 13. That’s the whole point of bar mitzvahs.
That’s the commonly accepted estimate, but we don’t really know. Scholars differ. My point is we have much less to work on regarding Judas.
Yes, it does, it says all his men and the pharoh drowned, I will find the direct quote for you. It is in Exodus.
Of course it has been proven that the winds that separated the waters(if it happened would have also blown off the Israelites they tried it witha big machine that blew winds hard enough to separate the waters and since so many peole would have had to cross there would have been no way it could have happened as wrtten, A 160 pound man couldn’t take the wind so that would mean no one smaller could have either.
Look to Exodus Chapter 15 verse 19, The Douay version.KLV gives Pharoh’s horse as going in and it would be strange if Pharoh jumped off, thenseeing the power of God would not tell about it!
No, sorry. Exodus says that Pharoah’s army drowned, but does not say that Pharoah himself did. Exodus 14:27-28 says " Moses stretched out his hand over the sea, and at daybreak the sea went back to its place. The Egyptians were fleeing toward it, and the LORD swept them into the sea. The water flowed back and covered the chariots and horsemen—the entire army of Pharaoh that had followed the Israelites into the sea. Not one of them survived."
Exodus 15:19 repeats, “When Pharaoh’s horses, chariots and horsemen went into the sea, the LORD brought the waters of the sea back over them, but the Israelites walked through the sea on dry ground.” Pharoah himself probably rode a chariot and not a horse, and the verse talks about his horses and chariots - in other words, his army. You may infer that Pharoah drowned also, but it is not anywhere stated that he did, so it’s pointless to trot is out as a “fact” to discredit the story.
First of all, I’ve never heard of such a test; do you have a cite? But second (and most importantly), the Exodus story is a sacred myth and not a historical account. It may or may not have elements of truth but that’s not really important. It’s like arguing that all the animals couldn’t have fit on the ark.
I just noted that you quoted the Douay translation. While that version does say “Parao went in on horseback with his chariots…” in 15:19, the Douay version was translated from the Latin Vulgate in 1609. Modern translations are more accurately translated and are based on based on earlier sources.
The Douay version I had reads differently, it is much older than the KJV, I suppose that in the KJV (since it is the word of a human) had to find away to justify the fact that the Pharoh didn’t drown, plus the story was written by the Israelites and non of the Egyptians gave glory to the Israelites God, nor was it in any Egyptian history would surley have been recorded if all the pPharoh’s army was destroyed; one historian says that during that time there is evidence that the Pharoh’s army was fighting some where else at the time.Egypt still had an army, and it is a fable like a lot of the OT and some of the NT. One is free to believe what they choose, but belief is not fact.
So it was believed for many centuries,and since there were many translations and non are from that time, it was supposed to have happened, one doesn’t need to believe any of them, there are no originals of the OT or NT and of course people would like things to be in accord with their beliefs.There is archelogical evidence that it would not have happened as stated. And if Moses was a real human and had that many people wander in the desert for 40 years he and his followers were not too bright!
It was on the History Channel last year, I didn’t mark the date or place, but they did build a big wind machine and showed the need for a wind strong enough to keep the water’s separated so the thousands of people would have had to cross the Red Sea.
Doesn’t it make you wonder why God is not helping the Israelies today? There have been no miracles to save them since that time, and why didn’t God help them during the Holocost? They were just as deserving people then as in ages ago.They are still His people just as they were then!
The story is just that, a story, and there is so much in the Bible that is about God working such great miracles. And a sacred Myth is still a Myth no matter whose myth it is. LIke the Myth of an angel dictating a book to Muhammad. The sad thing is that some people think that buildings or lands are more sacred than people, and have killed many over the years and are still doing so because some book or belief aid in their lack of love for one another.
According to the year it was supposed to have happened they think it was Ramses the 2d.
Monrovis, you seem to be conflating different arguments.
One is “The bible says Pharoah drowned, but there is no Egyptian records of a Pharoah drowning.” I’m saying that the Bible doesn’t say that. Douray is one of the oldest English translations of the OT which makes is less reliable, not more. Modern translations have much better access to source material, and linguistic scholarship is literally centuries advanced past what Douray had. I’m not aware of any single translation since Douray that translates the verse that way.
Then you toss up a bunch of other historical reasons why the exodus couldn’t have happened that way. That’s fine. Maybe they wanted to cover up the destruction of the army, maybe that’s just fanwanking. I’m not trying to argue that the biblical story is literally, inerrantly true. It’s an important cultural touchstone - a myth - for Jews and Christians and has been for millenia. Whether it really happened that way is up for debate and IMO irrelevant.
To speak with any certainty as to when it happened - during the reign of Ramses II or whenever - is just speculation.
My only motive is to promote biblical literacy here – to point out what the bible says and what it doesn’t say. It doesn’t say that Pharoah drowned. It does say that a wind blew the water back and the Isrealites walked across dry ground. I’m not asking you to believe any of it, just to make sure the story you reject is actually the one that’s told and not based on a misunderstanding.
It does state that all of the Pharoh’s army was sunk to the bottom of the sea. So then The Pharoh could have easily been defeated,nor did he or his people give honor to God nor was there any other place except in the writings of the Israelites, or any other Historian, as a matter of fact, there is no real proof that Moses was a real historical person It is proven that there was no large group of people that lived for 40 years in the desert, also that they did find a few places where a smal group like a family had live there in differen parts of the desert during that perod and before.
Perhaps if the KJV (which I also have) could be a copy or a translation of another version. Since the originals are missing.So it boils down to how many versions there were before that.
Yes. I’m not arguing for the historicity of the exodus event; I’m just trying to be clear about the events in the story. Pharoah’s army drowned while the Isrealites were on the other side.
The KJV is a bit better than Douray because while Douray was translated from the 4th century Latin Vulgate, the KJV mostly used original language texts (Greek, Hebrew). However the KJV is now 400 years old – in the last four centuries several things have happened:
-- we've found better and older manuscripts than the KJV had access to;
-- we've learned more about the meanings of archaic words in the original languages;
-- the English language has changed and evolved
For these reasons the KJV, though the language is beautiful, is not the best source for critical study of the Bible. Most protestant churches today use the current NIV (New International Version); I’m not sure what English translation the Roman Catholics use now – English Standard Version perhaps? Any translation updated in the past 30 years will be much better than anything 400 years old.
The NIV’s philosophy of “helpful changes” make me wary of it, in general. They create connotations where none existed in the original language and, in my view, sanitize the text. The children cursed by Elijah and killed by a bear are usually translated as “little children” or something very similar. The NIV makes them a “gang of youths” in their recent edit. You might be concerned about God killing little children, but no one loses sleep over a gang.
For specific verses to minimize misunderstanding, I suggest Young’s Literal Translation. It’s downright impossible to read like a book, but the words were chosen to reflect the original meaning, as much as possible, often at the cost of grammar and syntax.
Religion is irrational by definition.
I don’t know waht version is correct,and doubt that the church kept any version (in the 300s when they decided what was from God or inspired by God) so one cannot state as fact anything that was written thousands of years ago, and noone seems to know the author, some say Moses but that too is debatable.
Sorry for this little exodus …
Has anyone ever tried to find historic evidence for Pharaoh’s beach party gone wild? Like a archaeological dig of suspect areas, a underwater sonar survey, etc.? If Pharaoh’s army was impressed by Yahweh to became an inept undersea navy, surely there would be a massive quantity of remains out there just waiting to be dug up along with a plethora of History and Discovery Channel documentaries.
Just curious. I saw a documentary that talked about Moses leading the Jews through the northern Sinai, rather than the traditional southern route and thought: if this was an historic event, why haven’t detritus of those travels been found? Or is work in this area being pursued currently, or in the past? Just curious.
Now, back to our feature presentation: Did Jesus unfriend Judas?