Why did so many pre- WWII Europeans hate the Jews?

And it really should be noted that a kind of cultural trend toward antisemitism and rounding Jews up and gassing them aren’t quite equivalent. Was it the King of Denmark, when told by the occupying forces that the Nuremberg Laws involving the wearing of the yellow star were going to be enforced in that country, informed the occupying general that the first to wear the star would be the king himself?

However, when the gospels were written, the new religion wanted to appeal to the Romans, so the whole Pilate washing his hands and the Sanhedrin conspiring were written down to whitewash the Romans as much as possible.

Prejudices don’t have to follow logic at all. And I think there’s the whole “new religion” inferiority complex: you believe you’ve found the light, shout your message from the rooftops, convinced that everybody else who hears it will also see the light.
Then, when people stick to their old religion, you get angry at them. Mohammed was originally friendly towards Jews and Christian, later, when he was rebuffed, he got angry.
Same with Martin Luther: he thought the Jews would see the light and convert to his new sect, so he was friendly, but when they ignored him, he wrote hate literature about them.

I believe that this particular anecdote is mythical, but the Danish people did take a lot of care to resist rounding up Jews, and for those that were sent to the camps, monitoring their treatment.

According to the book ‘The War of the World’ http://www.amazon.com/War-World-Niall-Ferguson/dp/0143112392/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1254164983&sr=8-3, he spent some time analyzing Jewish persecution. According to his findings, Jewish persecution was worse in countries where Jews were assimilating more and less bad in countries where they did not assimilate as much.

Don’t know the ramifications of that, but interesting. Might fit with Paul’s broad brushing.

Well! That convinces me!! I guess Paul is a schmuck. I mean…look at your logic!

Well, I wasn’t sure if Paul in Qatar’s post was a joke or not, but judging from his later post it might actually have been serious :eek:
I think it’s these bits that are the most eyebrow-rasing:

I’m a teacher (and so sort of an intellectual). My Dad was a telephone man (and so a manual laborer). I see no connection between my father’s lot in life and mine.
– I’m not sure how that is different from the story of countless Europeans. My dad was a university-educated electronic engineer, his dad an NCO in the army. So what?

Europeans, to generalize, feel a person is what he is. This one is a German, that one a member of the proletariat. You cannot change what you are.
– this is not generalising, it’s just flat out untrue.

Also keep in mind European states are ethnically-based. We have a France so people can wear berets and eat stinky cheese. There is a Britain for people who like warm beer and deep-fried Mars bars.
– obviously tongue-in-cheek, so I’m not sure if there’s a serious claim behind it. Living in Qatar he has presumably travelled a bit and visited London, or Paris or wherever. I’m not sure how one could visit those places and come away with the impression of an ethnically homogenous country.

Thanks.

How can I offer any enlightenment? I’m just an ignorant European. All my ancestors were peasants, and I am too. You can’t change what you are, you know.

Hey, you needed help with the Big One. :slight_smile:

I take it Europeans do not tend to think of themselves who they are rather than what they are.
Thanks.

Which “Big One”? Do you mean The Enlightenment? Because somehow, despite being a continent of hunter-gatherers, we managed that! :wink:

No, Europeans do not think of themselves as being only “what they are”, as **Paul **asserts. My great-grandfather couldn’t even write his name. His son owned a factory (incidentally, not in the same country), his grandson has a Masters degree and is one of the most respected people in the world in his field (his books being the received and taught texts), and his grandchildren (just down this little branch) have five Bachelors degrees, a PhD, a medical doctorate, three teaching qualifications, two Masters degrees, and a raft of IT-type qualifications.

As I said, I don’t have the energy or time to fight Paul’s ignorance. For a start that’s simple enough for him, though, I could direct him to Wiki; he could look at the pages on American antisemitism, then have a look at some of the information about the actual treatment of Jews in Europe throughout the ages. He admitted he was generalising, and that he was using a very broad brush. However his information was misleading at best, and rather xenophobic in a flag-waving sort of way.

And I hate to break it to him, but of course America is diverse. It’s because we peopled it… we, the Europeans.

It was the combination of religious persecution particular to the Jewish religion (and its relationship with Christianity), and a more generic hatred for “the other”.

One interesting point is that racist angle (that would ultimately lead to the holocaust) was specifically created in the 1800s by anti-semites. It was become “un-PC” in polite western-European to persecute someone because of their religion, on the other prejudice against race still very trendy and “scientific”, so the was a conscious shift from anti-Semitism because “they killed Jesus”, to anti-Semitism because of the “scourge” of the “Semitic” race. In fact the term “anti-Semitism” originated in this period.

And likewise for the prestigious “Ivy League” universities. The reason that the modern day colleges that are leaders in areas like Physics are the less historically prestigious ones such as MIT, Caltech, and Princeton, not the “Ivy League” ones that you would expect, are that pre-WW2 Jewish emigres such as Einstein were not really welcome at “Ivy League” schools.

Princeton is an Ivy League school.

My two cents: It was a kind of self-fulfilling mechanism.

Step 1:Because they are “Ccannish”, make laws that forbid them from living anywhere except the Ghetto.

Step 2: Accuse them of not wanting to assimilate

Step 3: Forbid them from various trades, the ability to own land, and a university quota system, leaving only occupations to which Gentiles are forbidden or loath to do such as lending and trading.

Step 4: Accuse them of being money-grubbing leaches.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Paul in Qatar may have oversimplified in some parts, and overstated (slightly) in others, but the traditionalism and rigidity of Europeans vs the fluidity and love of novelty of Americans has been well established in thousands of books and articles.

Sure Europe has become more like America in many ways, and America still wrestles with its own historic demons, but the differences Paul refers to are still present.

There’s a psych professor out here at Cal State Long Beach, Kevin McDonald, whose specialty is using evolutionary psychology to examine Jews in Europe and the States.

His conclusion, in a nutshell (how apropos) is that anti-Semitism is all the Jews’ fault, because they’re bad people.

http://www.amazon.com/People-That-Shall-Dwell-Alone/dp/0595228380/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1254175806&sr=1-1-fkmr0

McDonald’s books are required reading in the white nationalist crowd. The Civil Rights movement, feminism, and third world immigration, in their view, are all the fault of the Jews.

(Maybe Chief Pedant has read these books from cover to cover and wants to comment? )

As demonstrated by the clear, rational, opposition to president Obama, which ENTIRELY centered on the issues he holds. Not about his descent and birthplace :rolleyes:

I gathered from what he said that “what you are” meant a German or a Pole or French, and would therefor be more likely to think that people who dressed and spoke funny were bad. Americans considered what they’ve done, and think that somebody who dresses and talks funny could make his own way as they did.

I presume the kid who called Mrs. Plant a “fucking Jew” in traffic in New Hampshire was an American of European heritage. :slight_smile:

Exactly. The story about the King and the yellow star is a myth, but the Danish government and the Danish people saved the majority of Jews in the country when the Nazis finally decided to round them up (warned them and got them to Sweden).

So, what about this one:

Near the end of WWII (The Big One) Hitler asks the Finns, “Why don’t you send us your Jews?” And the guy running Finland replies, “Why don’t you come get them?”
:slight_smile: