My only “defense” was to say there are explanations for Roosevelt’s actions other than anti-Semitism, and that there were reasons Jews voted for him. If you object so much to those statements, you should think harder about how other people will react to your own posts.
I am trying to be patient with you because you’re new here, but with the way you’re speaking to me and to other posters, you are starting to use up my patience. The cardinal rule in debates here is that you can attack an argument (saying that someone is wrong, and why, and the implications of their ideas), but you can’t attack other posters as individuals. That’s not what you’ve been doing, and you need to start following those rules.
I don’t know why there is so much opposition to what “NY JEW” is saying. Political conservatism is directly correlated with religious conservatism in Jewish population. That’s the undeniable fact, supported by statistics. Why the arguments?
There’s been no argument about that point since several people pointed it out before he joined the thread. People objected to his comments that non-Orthodox Jews are not true Jews (and as a reminder, that topic is out of bounds for this thread) and to his comments that liberal Jews would vote for Hitler instead of a Republican. To a lesser extent there’s been argument about the meaning of different demographic trends.
The first one, if he said it, is wrong (although I don’t remember him saying it). A Jew is a Jew. One can be a good Jew or a bad Jew, in respect to religion, but a “true Jew” is not in Judaism’s terminology. You may be confusing this with his argument about converts. Non-orthodox converts are not accepted as Jews by the Orthodox community. You can kinda see why - if I declare myself a “rabbi” tomorrow and start handing out conversion certificates, there is absolutely no reason for other Jews to accept those converts as Jews.
As for the second thing - he may have overstated it for emphasis, but I know quite a few liberal Jews who would go to almost any length rather than vote for a Republican. I am sure you know some as well. That’s not a big revelation.
As for the demographic trends thing - again, it’s just stating the obvious. Orthodox Jews have MUCH MUCH higher birth rate than the (negative, I think) birth rate of the liberal/reform/atheist Jews.
any one born from a jewish mother whether they’re reform going back 10 generations on their mothers side is a jew even if they don’t do a thing or vote for Hitler on a final solution ticket.
That said any non Orthodox convert is worthless and a 100% non jew even if they saved as many Jews as Raul Waldenberg are the biggest Torah scholar in the world and spend all day in the synagogue/study hall.
Reform “Judaism”, Conservative “Judaism” and deconstructive “Judaism” are not Judaism.
In all measures of jewish identity even excluding ones that are thought to religious in nature Orthodox jews (this is percentage wise in many different areas) are more jewish then non Orthodox jews, this is what I’m calling jewish.
Jews who care more about other jews are more likely to vote Republican (I think anyone with a half a brain would realize Orthodox jews care more about other jews the Conservative who in turn care more then reform) (just the fact that Orthodox jews give more money to jewish charities then Conservative despite being the poorest of all groups (who in turn give more then reform))
Jewish values are represented by the Torah
non Orthodox jews vote democratic because they replaced the true religion with liberalism (many of which principles are the excuses people used different problems in the beginning of the century even though applying those principles to todays events are destructive to the Jewish community)
most non Orthodox jews care more about those principles that the lives of other jews (this is true though it most of the times is not conscious)
based on the above said points they will vote for clear anti semites.
the Republican party is much more aligned with True Judaism’s positions (as many saw in the Weprin election)
Reform “Judaism”, Conservative “Judaism” and deconstructive “Judaism” are not Judaism.
then explain them (please explain what reason is there to insist that only 10% of all refuges could be jewish when they were the most in jeopardy) (compare this to a true friend of all jews (despite his letters) who gave a executive order that all DP got first dibs on the quotes (which he couldn’t overule) of course this was after the fact unlike when the anti semite Roosevelt was presedent and not only didn’t do something like this but put new quotes for jews on top of the old ones)
at this point voting for Obama is like voting for Hitler on a small scale, and anyone who could vote on the small scale has the potential to vote on the big scale. And just like you try to defend Roosevelts obvious anti semitisim (attacking him would be like attacking Moses to a believer of Judisim) I truley think you would also find away to razonlize voting for Hitler and you’ll find all sort of fake reasons why he’s not bad until it’s to late.
This is not meant to be an insult only how I interpret the facts. now (even though I doubt you believe me) what is the proper way to say that with out being insulting?
Point 8 above is overstated. So is point 2 - the non-Orthodox convert is not “worthless”. He/she’s just not Jewish. Not being Jewish is not being “worthless”.
more about those ratings
a single people living alone is counted equal to a family with adult children living at home (many Orthodox do not move out of the house in till they are married))
and since the numbers even in the past 20 years of single people living alone has skyrocketed (much less of a problem in the Orthodox community) there’s already a bias against Orthodox in the study even just comparing them.
just to show you the extreme that I’m now cherry picking the 2 cities where I would expect lousy results (I cant find comparisons even using different rating systems for the other cities that would be on my cherry picked list but then again I couldn’t find 2 set of CHicago’s numbers either) (just as a side point single people living alone are counted the same as a family with adult children living at home (which many Orthodox do ))
here this is probably the most (not only not Orthodox but anti Orthodox) city in America
Bay area 1986 (3%) 2004 (3%) with 3,500 households (and the population is so small that this disclaimer was put there )
Cincinnati (the headquarters of the reform movement)
1987 (11%) 2008 (5%)
but regarding Cincinnati they also say this “Very few comparisons to the 1987 Study have been made in the 2008 Report because of the lack of an RDD-component in 1987.”
Sarasota 1982 (2%) 1992 (2%) 2001 (2%)
Here’s more showing you that proof at least in Rhode Island (those number of jews who grew up Orthodox who are no longer orthodox were disproportionally older)
page 178
There has also been an increase in the proportion of households identified as Conservative from 37 percent to 44 percent. These changes are much more dramatic when viewed by age. Over half of those age 65 and over grew up in households that were Orthodox; 29 percent grew up in households that were Conservative, and 11 percent grew up in Reform households. Among the younger ages, the proportion growing up in Orthodox households was 17 percent, 43 percent in Conservative households, and 25 percent in Reform households. Thus, the household religious denominational context in the formative years of the current Jewish community (when the current Jewish population was growing up) more than doubled toward Reform, increased significantly toward Conservative Judaism, and shifted away from Orthodox.
% of this age population in RI that are HOUSEHOLD identified as currently Orthodox
65+ (9%) 45-65 (3%) under 45 (9%)
now compare this to same stat but grew up Orthodox
65+ (53%) 45-65 (35%) under 45 (17%)
since I’m assuming that this the under 45 would be cut of at 18 (this is based on interviews) people born after 1969 have a way higher retention rate then what’s here.