I am NOT anti-gay. I have wonderful lesbians friends! Even took my children to a lesbian wedding.
I am only against having a GAY DAY AT DISNEY!!!
:dubious:
I have not seen anyone go for the public full tilt boogie clothed live sex show that I’ve seen some straight people do. I’ve lived around the country, and even going for that in a gay bar is not the norm in my experience.
The “get a room” remark AFAIAC has always been because a straight couple is having a superfreak moment at a mall, in a park, or at times: at the movies.
I have a hard time believing an idea like that would have made it out of the janitor’s closet at Disney, Inc.
But of course, it’s a lovely idea. That’s what I love about race. It’s great that I can go out in public and show my shiny white face and never have to worry about people mistaking me for being black. I’m glad God had the foresight to give us an obvious marker like skin tone. I never have to designate via special clothing or a large sign that I’m not one of those black folk. Whew!
Aaaaanyway, it turns out you are part right and part wrong about some things. There was, once, a gay Disney-sponsored event held as a private function. This from the GayDay2 website:
*"Years ago, Disneyland used to hold a private party one night of the year for gays and lesbians. When the event was canceled in 1998, we created Gay Day 2. We derived our name from our big sister event in Orlando, Gay Day (1), which attracts over 100,000 gays and lesbians from around the world each June.
Like the Orlando event, Gay Day 2 is a “mix in,” meaning gay people and straight people mingle together; the park is open to the general public. Also like Gay Day, we wear RED shirts to identify one another and show our numbers.
Remember, this event isn’t sponsored by Disney (hence why it’s “unofficial”) so if you call Disneyland asking for information about Gay Day, they will tell you that this is not a Disney event."*
Just to warn you not to go sidling up to someone in a red shirt to try to commisserate about how awful it is to have all those Gays taking over the park. I don’t think Mr. or Mrs. Redshirt will be receptive.
Let’s see:
[ul]
[li]It has been explained to you that it isn’t an official day sponsored by Disney.[/li][li]Other aspects have been explained to you about affection, coming out, etc…[/li][li]You mention gays first for either making out in public, or some other aspect which disgusts you, and you only give attention to the fact that straight people do that to after someone else mentions it.[/li][li]You still keep hammering on being against a GAY DAY AT DISNEY!!!.[/li][/ul]
What is your issue with this?
Are you having a Helen Lovejoy “Won’t somebody think of the children?” moment? Have you just seen a video by Pat Robertson? Was there a Will & Grace marathon on and your children were watching it unsupervised?
The mind boggles. You have been told many times there is no Official GAY DAY at Disney. Like many theme parks groups or companies will have X days at these parks.
They have the right to do that. Sheesh. Why not come clean and say what really bugs you about the idea that Gays come out and tell people they are gay?
You keep going on about your lesbian friend… well why not ask her directly. See what she has to say.
As far as the issue of hiding the fact I have seen it and it was actually quite sad.
An ex partner’s uncle was most assuredly Gay. He had boyfriends and was one of those exceptionally festive folks. He was quite the character and I thought quite highly of him.
The family knew he was gay and when he could slip out to “the bar” he could be himself but outsiders were “not allowed to know”. He was not to discuss his activities or call his boyfriends anything but friends.
The family explained away any “quirks” and to keep his mother happy he went along. He died of aids over a decade ago and to this day the family will only talk about the fact he died of “cancer”. In lieu of flowers they asked for donations… to the cancer society. Not that that is a bad thing to donate to but it was done to cover a families shame.
by the way:
I wish I could, but even though I knew that man, support gay rights including marriage, hate bigotry disguised by religion or some sort of hypocritical notion of public decency (and on top of that there is the fact my sister in law is a lesbian with a long time partner… I don’t think they are getting married) I still do the double take.
Isabelle, could you please tell us what Disney should do about all the homos showing up in red shirts once a year? I don’t understand what point you’re trying to make. This is an event organized by the patrons of the park, not by Disney itself. What if a bunch of Irish people decided to wear green shirts to the park on St. Patrick’s Day? Would you have a problem with that?
Bad genes. Diabetes in both sides of the family and my eyesight is the pits. But you can raise children in a respectful and accepting world. 
btw: Isabelle… the most common thing out of a racist-in-denial’s mouth is “some of my best friends are black.” That don’t change that you think they are inferior. That being said, I don’t think Isabelle is anti-gay. I think she sees a lot of what the media portrays (not to be all “media=plot to brainwash”). QAF (which is one of my favorite shows), Will and Grace, Queer Eye for the Straight Guy (another fave) all show very out, somewhat flamboyent queers who are obsessed with sex. Hell, did you see the Christina Aguilara “Beautiful” video? I was disturbed by the two guys making out in that… it was scary, I thought the gum in one’s mouth had like melded the two tongues together.
Isabelle: when was the last time your lesbian friends made out in front of you? I never see gay couples do more than be affectionate. Straight couples (admittedly, I’m 17, alot of the straight couples i know have more hormones than a research lab) that I have seen are all over each other. I’m sure some gay couples are too. Its nice… equal gross-out for us all
BEWARE THE TONGUE MELDING GUM
Ok Ok already Disney does NOT sponosr Gay Days. I get it.
I thought they did…my mistake.
Okay, now I am really confused about the red shirt.
Have to agree with Mockingbird. I never see gay public behavior get out of line the way straight behavior does.
My daughter, who is 19 years younger than I, gets a bit panicky in large crowds. Leaving a concert one night, the crowd was making her uncomfortable, so I took her hand. Two youngish men behind us made rude comments, including “they wouldn’t be interested in women if they ever had a real man.”
Fortunately, I was wearing high-heeled boots, and they were wearing sneakers. Ouch!
I think people need to give Isabelle a break. It seems pretty clear to me that she is not anti-gay. It’s too bad that people often let political ideologies marr their objectivity or allow them to read deeper (although it’s understandable). I think Isabelle’s point, and we all probably feel this way to some degree, is that she doesn’t think gay people should have their own days because they should be the same as everyone else; ie: no one should care if they are gay or straight, take a second look if two men or two women are holding hands, etc. I read her point as being that she wants to have all this divisiveness behind us so we can forget about being gay as being an issue and instead of calling someone “Doug, my gay friend”, we can call him “Doug, my friend with an interest in history and a penchant for talking loudly when he’s excited” or some other arbitrary traits. That way, no one will care either way if Doug is gay and we won’t need Pride week or anything like that.
And as for the Disney thing, it seems clear that she was informed erroneously and until CrankyAsAnOldMan cleared it up was under the understanding that Disney did have a park-designated Gay Day where people were separated by shirt colours. All cleared up now, so let’s drop it.
I went to “gay day” at Disney World about 7 years ago (and yup, I’m gay). I saw a lot of men and women walkin’ about with red shirts on (It’s the gays that wear the shirts). Not a whole lot of making out or heavy petting but I did see hand holding and kissing to the extent of any equivalent heterosexual pda at the park. So why have the day(s)?
Well, I came out on November 4th, 1993. I was 20 years old at the time. In the almost ten years that have passed since America has become a much more accepting place. Groups like the Radical Faeries and Act-Up have faded to the background and now groups like Human Rights Campaign have taken the activist’s reins. The movement has become more mainstream and acceptance of LGBT is more widespread (and in some places, mandatory). IMHO, it’s a real shame that “gay day” still occurs at Disney or anywhere. It’s a sign that society has not fully accepted to the point of ambivalance LGBTs and that LGBTs don’t feel as a whole comfortable blending in with the rest of society. It’s fragmentation on both parts is what fuels these events. (As for me, I’m not a flag waver, I don’t go to pride, I don’t introduce myself as gay, I have neither pride nor shame about it, it’s just part of what I am and not who I am).
[IIRC, the park did boot transvestite(s) from the park although I can’t find a cite to corroborate that though and I’m not sure if Disney still has or ever had a policy against it and it may just be urban mythology (maybe I should get MTV on it, ha!) Does anyone remember this or have any knowledge about it?]
Thank you scule. You made my point more clearly then I could have!
I think it’s quite clear that Isabelle is not willing to examine to what extent the “ick factor” is informing her reaction to seeing self-identified gay men in public. She insists on placing the responsibility for her discomfort on the people who make her uncomfortable. As long as she continues to do so, rather than taking responsibility for her own reaction, she will continue to experience this discomfort. It’s more likely, then, that her homophobia will fester and grow, rather than gradually wear away. She will not, in other words, simply “get used to it” unless she makes a conscious effort do so. If she continues to address this issue only indirectly, and from a stance of denial, she is giving herself implicit permission to nurture and hold her still-relatively-latent-but-very-real homophobia, rather than to bring it out into the light, confront it, and put it behind her.
To Isabelle, you’re welcome, I try.
To the quote: I think you are reading too much into it. I can understand how a gay person (I don’t know if you are but that doesn’t really matter) would have a certain defensiveness about him/herself when issues like this come up, but I really think people like Isabelle, myself, and many others, just don’t care about being gay or straight.
We care about whether someone is polite, friendly, hard-working, or whatever, not about what they do in private. It doesn’t bother me to see two men or two women holding hands, I see it often enough (Canada is pretty tolerant) and I don’t double-take. In fact, I say good for them. The point is, we want it to be that kind of situation, where a gay couple can walk down the street, hold hands, even kiss each other and no one will care, point it out, so a double-take, or otherwise notice. No special days, no separation of rights, no distinctions, so that everyone is regarded equally and we don’t have to make an issue of it anymore. In other words, the response is “I get it, you’re gay, let’s move on”.
(As an aside, my girlfriend is Chinese and I’m (ugh) white, and we get more looks for being a so-called interracial couple than I notice people giving to gay couples. Wonder when that will change, though to be fair it doesn’t happen much).
a) I don’t think a conscience effort to get used to something works. I was raised in a house where at 7, after someone of the playground uttered “that’s so gay” as an insult and I repeated it, my mother explained why gay isn’t bad. That’s my reason for not doing doubletake. Same reason that if I saw a whites-only fountain I’d be all like “WTF?!” Isabelle probably does the doubletake b/c she is (at least I’m assuming b/c she has more than one kid) probably not in my generation. She was probably raised during the 80’s, when homosexuality was, by all reports, a fierce, scary and stigmatized thing. It was not the same era. So I gotta say, when my grandmother, raised in the rural South in the 20’s and 30’s , says something about a black person, I tell her not to. But it is a very different thing from if I was to say something about a person b/c they were black.
b) Once again, as moment of yea for the queers, the Rev. Gene Robinson was elected as a Bishop in the Episcopalian church. It’s a big deal. The summer of 2003 seems to be a great time for gay rights (the Lawrence decision and so on)
I’m with lissener. If simply having a day when you go to a park with like-minded people sets Isabelle off (because these people are gay – apparently not a problem if there were a Hetero Day), the problem is hers.
If the non-scary hand-holding she hardly notices when heteros do it offends her when gays do it, the problem is hers.
There are lots of behaviors that belong in private, and I don’t like seeing them in public no matter who does it. I nearly heave at the sight of people walking around with toothpicks in their mouths. Teeth-picking belongs in the bathroom. But hand-holding and attending a special event at the park are not in that category.
But y’know, it can be kind of fun to know some people can be easily offended. A man was taking up most of the seating space at Borders one day and glared at me when I sat down in the one chair he wasn’t using for his papers, books, laptop, etc. So I went over to Gay and Lesbian, got a big book titled “Lesbian Sex,” carried it back to the chair, held it facing him and began turning pages slowly, murmuring “umm,” “wow!” and so on. Got rid of him in about 2 minutes.
Missing the point again, I think. For the third time, Isabelle’s problem, as far as I can see, is that she doesn’t want being gay to be an issue. She thought that Disney sponsored a Gay Day, was shown the error, and retracted her remarks. She just wants it to be something that no one cares about, so that we can all be who we are and not have to define ourselves by sexual orientation. Life would be grand if no one cared which gender you liked, and just let people be. I think we can all agree on that.
As for the like-minded people idea, if Disney ever did sponsor a Gay Day, good for them, but that doesn’t mean you have a bunch of like-minded people attending, because gays run the gamut of society, just like heteros, with many varied mindsets. Like-minded would be like having Liberal Day, or something like that.
Though, summerbreeze, I agree with you completely on the toothpick thing, ewww. Also, though not a behaviour, I really would rather big bellied men not wear tank tops that don’t cover their guts in public. Not pleasant.
Just for the record, I support full-tilt, unrestrained, madly infatuating PDAs for homosexuals in public.
Of course, I also support full-tilt, unrestrained, madly infatuating PDAs for heterosexuals in public as well… 
Do you know when this is? I want to go!