Let’s say you run a meetup.com group or area coordinator for a non profit that gets all it’s man power/money through volunteers. Why would you say want people to join/volunteer but than treat the people that come like they don’t “belong” there?
I volunteer at an animal shelter that does this. The place is run by a mainly female staff and only three men. Their ages are 40+ and I swear they act like a group of clucking hens! New people get stared at like they have two heads and other people are ignored entirely.
I am a member of several Meetup groups and I keep running into the fallowing:
The group could have 500+ members, but the “regulars” want nothing to do with them.
Groups that were formed to “teach” something (languages, knitting, etc) don’t really seem to want to do that. One foreign language group makes it so you need a pickax to break the ice! They say high and then go back to doing whatever their doing (conjugating vowels, cross stitching, painting) and will ignore/get irritated with peoples attempts to ask questions pertaining to the activity. For the language group I mentioned I just sit quietly with my flashcards.
Why ask/beg for people to join/help out, then treat them like this?
I think the bottom line is that a group has taken control that co-signs each others bullshit. I run into the same thing all the time. Most non profits are run by boards and are elected by memebers. It takes a littel bit of organization to run the old group out and the new group needs to be ready to take over responsiblities that they may not want to handle.
I guess there are other motivations for running a group than just doing the group activity.
A lot of people go to meetups and things hoping to get a date, and that’s fine (as long as they’re not creeping people out).
But when the organizers of the group are trying to get dates or just increase their circle of friends, you can get a bad atmosphere because they’re only welcoming to you if/while you’re a “candidate” (obviously this isn’t so relevant for the 500+ group, but can be the case with the smaller groups).
Other times there is something they’re trying to sell / promote, and if you’re not interested in that, they become jerks.
Honorable mention: laziness, and the fact some people are just jerks
In some cases, volunteers are not there to volunteer so much as socialize. And of course, they get to brag they “helped” with this or that instead of just going to the weekend stitching club, so there’s an incentive to do this while volunteering. If they’re in charge of any decisions, then there’s an added bonus for them of power. The sorts of people that will volunteer for boards long-term are the kind of people that feed off the feeling of power they get from running the board. Anyone who comes in purely for altruistic reasons will either quit after a few years as they butt heads with these folks or they will turn into one of them.
Of course, as soon as a person quits volunteering because the clique pushed them out and ignored them, it’s “evidence” that the clique left behind is obviously better people. We stayed and kept helping, they quit, so they obviously do not care as much as we do. Aren’t we awesome? Why even bother with these newbies, they never stick around! Hmph!
All a matter of ego and people who think they’re more important than they are.
I had this with a classic car club that I used to belong to.
They had a fairly friendly forum that I was active in (that had a mix of club members and non-members), plus several local groups that used to meet up every month or so. The club organisers were always begging for new people to come along to these meets and talking about how great and friendly they were (while vaguely complaining that they weren’t as popular as they used to be), so I decided to go along to one.
Now, I’m a bit shy, so just turning up to a meet like this by myself and introducing myself to everyone was a big step for me, but I made the effort. Unfortunately nobody else did. They all said hi, maybe spent 30 seconds or so on small talk with me, then ignored me to chat with their mates. 15 minutes after arriving, I found myself sitting there awkwardly by myself, so I finished my drink and left.
After that, I cancelled my membership - there didn’t really seem much point in being a member of a club that doesn’t even bother to talk to new members.
Open Source/Free Software is full of this. Someone wishing to join an established team often has to put up with hostility and distrust (plus lots of insults and the equivalent of “go away or I shall taunt you a second time”) until they’ve been around long enough to be accepted, grudgingly at first.
Root cause: humans are cliquish douchebags. We have an “in” group, and we have an “out” group, and if you’re in the “out” group we damn well expect you to stay the hell out.
ETA: I’ve noticed this with other libre projects, like editing wikipedia. Expect to have your useful contributions instantly reverted by the editor-watchdog-in-residence if they don’t know you, even if you’re an acknowledged demonstrated expert on the topic and they’re just random basement-dwellers.
All this is true, but it’s also true that lots of people are socially awkward and don’t know how to be friendly, or don’t see that as their job. And these are learned skills–how to approach someone, how to introduce yourself, how to introduce someone to others in a way that helps everyone find common ground and sparks small talk. These are not HARD, but you have to have thought about how to do them. It’s not natural. Even at parties, lots of people don’t do this, and there, at least, there is a clear host, whose job it is to help people mingle and where everyone has at least one friend in common. In a sort of organic, free-form environment I can see it being even worse, even easier for people sit and idly wonder who the new person is, even vaguely want to talk to them, but have no idea how that actually happens, and no sense that they ought to make it happen.
Manda JO’s observations are right on target. I’m a fairly outgoing, friendly person, and it’s difficult for me to stop and realize that many people are not. I’ve tried to be more aware of some peoples’ discomfort or reticence in social situations, and attempt to bring them into the group.
One thing I have noticed about people who are shy upon entering social situations: they often have a closed, serious face, which will tend to fend off human approach. You don’t need to grin like a fool, but practice having an open, friendly, even slightly amused look. Look approachable, rather than miserable or serious. Prasctice in front of a mirror if you have to.
I find this distressingly common at meetups, and it’s the reason I stopped going to any. I went there to find new friends but everyone comes in groups or with their own friends, and sometimes there’s not even any discussion.
I have excellent social skills and know how to approach people and make them comfortable but it means nothing when they clearly don’t want any new people in their groups.
The groups experience with new volunteers may not be good. They may go through the trouble of showing volunteers the ropes and then they don’t ever come back. Some volunteers may try to take control, or complain, or just not do anything useful, or worse, get in the way.
So with people’s tendency to form groups and view others as outsiders anyway it’s not surprising that this happens. Maybe some individual needs to be in charge of volunteers to make them feel welcome and put them through some set of steps to qualify them as members of the group (or to weed out the ones that aren’t wanted).
My point is that *they *may not know how to approach people and make them comfortable, and, more significantly, not think of it as their job to do so. They may be thinking vaguely that someone else will do that.
This was my experience with a meetup, also. This one was a “dining out” group an aquaintenance invited me to. She and the others spent two hours re-living all the places they’d dined together recently in another city, rattling off the names of the wines and the appetizers like a list of Who’s Who. They asked me only once if I’d been to Whatsitsname Restaurant and when I said, no, ignored me the rest of the evening.
I’ve had the same experience repeatedly and, like Anaamika, have good social skills and am considered by my friends to be very warm and funny. But you can’t break through where you aren’t wanted.
I’m beginning to get the impression that creating a group predicated on the expectation that it will generate meetups is sorta like mass-producing tchotchkes predicated on the expectation that they will be collectibles.
Been my experience with meet ups as well. Leaders want to feel important and base success on the number of people who come but don’t want to do anything to make newcomers feel welcome.
I’ve been leading one hike a week for a meet up group for a few years. I certainly have my regulars but I and them make effort to make conversation with anyone there for the first time. I quit attending other meet ups even within the same meet up group because I don’t like the clicky nature of the other activities.
It’s springtime now so new pepole show up every week. I and the other core members that stuck it out through the winter don’t end up talking to each other much during the hike, instead we learn a bit about each new person. After the hike we usually stick around to make plans for a weekend hike which is not done as a meet up, I don’t like doing meet ups for the bigger mountains as an inexperienced hiker is a big liability. We invite people who we’ve established have the experience nessesary.
My opinion is the options that offer open sign up should always be casual and friendly towards new people
I got involved in meet up to meet people with similar interests and assume that’s why others do to. It’s certainly no fun to show up and feel like the odd man out.
I’ve been to a few meetups. I went to a vegetarian meetup at a restaurant (I’m not a vegetarian). I went to an agnostic/atheist meetup. And I’ve been to a few urban hiking/touring meetups. The urban hiking/touring events were my absolute favorite–and that’s because usually everyone who shows up are strangers. Maybe a few couples show up, but usually it’s just individuals who just want to take a long walk and learn some history at the same time. No one’s trying to make friends with anyone.
I actually don’t like when I’m new to a group and all the attention is on me. When I tried the Quaker congregation, they were all so super friendly and welcoming that it was a bit intimidating. But I don’t like being ignored either.
If I knew the answer to your question for sure, all our congregations would have more members. Groups know they need new members and growth to survive but new people bring new ideas and then you run into the Seven Deadly Words - We’ve Never Done It That Way Before.
I was active with MeetIn for ages and they avoided it by almost never having groups. Everything was pretty much open to everyone and not that many cliques formed; at least around here.
Everybody else responded to the Meetup/social group aspect of this question, most of which I agree with, so I’ll address the volunteering side.
For almost a decade now (gah!) I’ve volunteered and occupied board seats for small all-volunteer animal rescue organizations, so I’ve built up some … ahem… well, expertise… in this area. I read somewhere that any time you get three or more people together politics ensue and I think that’s totally true. Two people can be friends with no drama (leaving aside the possibility that one of them brings drama everywhere they go, which is also possible), but the instant a third person is added the relationship dynamics change and politics rears it’s ugly head. In small volunteer groups, part of the problem is that nobody will admit that this is possible or worse, that it’s happening. And in small groups like this, the politics can be really subtle. Almost everybody I know from my animal rescue social circles say they no longer volunteer with any group because they can’t stand the politics. I’m more patient than most, so I’m still doing it even though I’ve changed groups. But I am tossing around the idea of stepping down, possibly this year, and not working a board seat on any group anymore. I guess what I’m saying is that if you think volunteering is bad, try being a volunteer board member!
Although I do come from a different perspective which causes me grief. I firmly believe that nonprofits should be run more like businesses than social clubs. So it itches my skin when my fellow board members ignore our policies and procedures to do whatever the hell they feel like doing. That’s the one consistent thing I’ve seen in the groups I’ve worked with.
I don’t doubt you have good social skills. My point is that THEY may have horrifically lousy social skills, and it takes two to tango. It may also be that you aren’t wanted, but I tend to assume incompetence before malice.
I posted in another thread here about my trials growing up as an extremely shy kid, and attempts to socialize myself as a young adult. I tried to learn by observing other people, so was always getting into situations where I felt stupid or like I made some major faux pas. It took me a long time before I realized that MOST people are socially awkward in various ways, and the situations where I thought I’d been smacked down for doing something wrong were actually just the other people not knowing “social rules of etiquette” either. I’m convinced that a socially awkward person can’t learn social rules by observing other people. Too many of us don’t know the rules. I actually think we could benefit society by bringing back charm schools!
Someone above mentioned that the host of a party is responsible for making sure all his guests feel welcome and included in conversations. I think that’s true, but I’ve been to many parties where the host just leaves everyone to fend for themselves.
Yeah–I think good social skills are necessary on both sides.
I go to the occasional gaming convention, and see stuff like this. Last year I was at one, and most of the people there already knew each other from previous events and online and could talk about families and careers and whatnot in addition to sharing silly gaming stories. There were a few newbies who managed to fit in.
And then there was the guy who set up an extremely elaborate game on a table in a corner, and then stood there staring at everyone else. Clearly he wanted someone to wander over and ask him about the game, and then get a game going, and he’d have a great time. But it didn’t work that way. Instead, I (and I presume others) were a little unsettled by his stare. I worried that if I went over to talk to him, he’d cling to me like a facehugger alien, and I wouldn’t be able to extricate myself easily. I worried that if I started a game with him, I’d commit myself to two or more hours of his company without knowing what he was like (except knowing that his social skills had some issues–see the stare, above).
If he’d gone around, talked to folks first, introduced himself, made a joke or two, and then said, “Hey, guys, I’ve got this cool game, anyone up for trying it out?” chances are good some folks would have said yes. Or he could have wandered over to another table, said, “Any chance I could sit in?” and I guarantee either room would have been made for him or (if that were impossible) he would have been invited to sit and kibbitz with the players.
But when you’re a new person in a group, you’ve got to take some initiative to join in conversations, even if it’s awkward to do so. This guy’s experience may have left him feeling like we were all a bunch of stuck-up cliquish geeksnobs, even though we were perfectly friendly toward other folks, and civil if not warm toward him.