It’s called instincts.
It’s called procreation.
It happens with every single living animal in nature.
Even if everyone took a pledge not to have children, it would still happen.
Are you fucking serious?
Jesus Christ, is this a fucking waste or what?
Another bad day at a retail outlet, Mercutio? Even if it is pure instinct, it has to translate into some recognizable feeling for people to act on it. Given that several people have mentioned that they have not experienced those feelings, the “wiring” must not be as clear-cut as you assume. Therefore, the discussion is not a “waste.”
On the other hand, your “instinct” answer is probably a good start to answer IMATION’s question. Put it together with Freedom2’s and bigbadmofo’s answers and we’re pretty close.
Historically, child mortality has always been high and the way to ensure that there would be another generation (and someone to care for you in your old age) was to have enough children to beat the odds that most of them would die.
Instinct probably plays a part in that urge.
It has only been since the discovery of antibiotics and things like DPT vaccines that children have lived long enough for families to reduce their size. There are ways to inhibit or terminate pregnancies other than the pill, but even they were rarely used when most families could be almost guaranteed to lose one or more children before they grew up.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Kate_W *
**
I didn’t say you derived enjoyment just from KIDS. You are instinctively predisposed to deriving enjoymenyt from having your OWN kids.
You may have decided on your own not to have them, which is fine, but consciously deciding not to engage in procreation does not mean you weren’t born with the instinct; you were. You’ve just, for a variety of reasons, decided it’s not for you.
IMATION:
Ummm… Imation, the people you see in news reports with flies on them starving to death and living in filth do not actually live that way all the time. Those people are refugees, usually driven from their land by war or natural disaster. When they had kids, I don’t think they were planning on some dictator’s army driving them into the desert to starve a la Ethiopia 1984-1985.
Everybody:
It’s fallen out of favour among economists to believe people have children as “insurance” or to keep them fed in their old age; by and large, kids are always an expense, and so having them as “insurance” is never a rational decision. Consequently, many now believe people have kids as a consumption good - basically, because they just like having them. I’ll get some cites on Monday.
If I’m reading this correctly, dude is implying that people who don’t have a burning desire to have kids are mutants. I don’t consider myself a mutant, and if I am a mutant, it is possible that in this overpopulated, diseased, dirty world, I might be the beneficial mutant. In animal populations (for example, rabbits) the females become infertile when the population in a certain area reaches critical limits. Perhaps my “mutation” of not desperately yearning for babies of my own was triggered by the conditions that humans are currently living in.
I don’t understand people wanting babies, but it’s their decision and I respect that; it’s a two-way street, though - please respect me and my decision to not have babies. When I say I don’t want children, that’s not an opening to grill and badger me and make me feel like, well, a mutant (yes, this has happened many, many times. Other women sometimes act in a very antagonistic way to a woman who doesn’t want children.)
Imation:
It’s more like, even if they could afford protection, there is no protection available to them. Also, traditionally, a woman’s value is dependent upon her ability to produce an heir- that is, a male heir. (How many wives did Henry the VIII decapitate for just this reason? Different culture, same concept.)
RickJay:
In former times, kids were insurance, though I doubt having them has ever been a purely rational decision. Unfortunately, some people in our society still feel that having kids will guarantee that someone will take care of them in their old age. If that’s the only reason why you want kids, you’d be much better off staying childless and investing that whompin’ sum of money in retirement plans. From what I have seen, kids and grandkids don’t repay a fraction of what was spent on their upbringing.
So why did I have kids? I have three, in fact. I generally despise other people’s kids, though I can tolerate my nieces and nephews. In my mind, nothing is more satisfying than hearing the pitter-patter (or, more realistically, the THUNDER-THUNDER) of kid’s footstomps through the house. We are a family, gifted with this need for each other for such a short time. Nothing compares to seeing a nuance of myself in my child, or being able to blame my child’s faults on my husband’s lineage. (And the home video I have of my kids receiving coal for Christmas is absolutely priceless. They’ll probably all be ax murderers when they grow up, but that video makes it all worthwhile.)
It makes no sense to me. I agree it’s an instinct, but not all of us need to have that urge to procreate. In my personal and unprofessional theory, it’s a good idea for some people to not want to have kids. Their nieces and nephews will be better cared for with more adults to provide for them.
I have a vote for egocentricity, personally. If anyone is interested in that chain of thought, I can elaborate, otherwise, carry on.
Everybody keeps talking about instinct all the time.
I tought the instinct was to do sex, not to procreate, at least on males (it may be the opposite with women).
I’m not saying that it’s not right for a man to want children, I just don’t believe it’s instinctive.
Nymysys I’d be delighted to hear it.
It has got to be instinctual. Why else would so many individuals jump into a proposition that weakens you, drains you financially, limits your choices considerably, lowers your chance for survival, and is so much damned hard work 24/7. . . and enjoy it!
I find that I cannot explain why I have children and why I’m happy I did and that I would definitely do it again if given the choice. Life would have been immeasurably easier for me and my spouse if we had never had children, but I cannot imagine not doing it.
We are irrational, we humans.
Two: Anne Boleyn and Katherine Howard. (He divorced Catherine of Aragon and Anna of Cleves, Jane Seymour died and Kathryn Parr survived him.)
And what does sex lead to…?
Do you think the male funnel spider risks being his lover’s entree because he wants to see little funnel spiders running around? No, he has an instinct to have SEX. The fact that 9/10 times she’ll eat him afterwards and use his body to nourish their little funnel spider offspring is apparently inconsequential to him. But the end result is babies.
Lisa, wondering how many men would STILL risk having sex if he knew he had a 9 out of 10 chance of being eaten alive afterward?
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Lisa, wondering how many men would STILL risk having sex if he knew he had a 9 out of 10
chance of being eaten alive afterward? **
I prefer before, I’m too sensitive afterwards.
My personal belief is that people have children because they want to be immortal. They live on through their children. I believe that the desire for immortality drives many human endeavors, but having kids is by far the most common.
I can’t imagine what my life would be like without my kids. I’m sure that I’d have a lot more time and money and would live in a nicer house and drive a nicer car, no car seats, no tantrums, no kids fighting, no spills, no messes, no potty training, no teething and drooling, no poopy diapers, less laundry, less groceries to buy, no day care expenses, no sick kids and doctor visits, etc., etc. For me, my life would be soooo dull if I didn’t have all this chaos in it. I wouldn’t know what to do with myself if I didn’t have kids to pick up after work, dinner to make, laundry to do, baths to give, teeth to brush, hugs and kisses to give and receive. It’s wonderful. I have two kids who depend on me, look up to me, respect me, and love me unconditionally. Yeah, it’s a lot of work and money and time, but so is anything worthwhile. To know that because of me (and others, but mostly me 
) my children have learned to hold their head up, sit, crawl, walk, talk, laugh, play, eat, drink, use the potty, pick up their toys, put on their coats, dress themselves, feed themselves, they’ve learned their limitations, they know what the word “No” means… I could go on and on but the list of their accomplishments is endless… and my kids are 3 1/2 years old and 1 1/2 years old!! Imagine how much I’ll be bragging about them when they’re 5!
I don’t think I’ve helped the OP much, but I tried.
I’m convinced it’s a form of massocisim (from watching what my parents go through with my little 13 year old sister)
“Say a man never marry, nor have children,
What takes that from him? Only the bare name
Of being a father, or the weak delight
To see the little wanton ride-a-cock-horse
Upon a painted stick, or hear him chatter
Like a taught starling.”
– Antonio in The Duchess of Malfi (1613)
Yes, it’s silly enough, isn’t it? But for some reason, most of us find the prospect quite irresistible…
As the formerly infertile Mom of one adopted and one bio, its something I’ve given a lot of thought to:
If faced with infertility and you decide to remain childless, your primary motivation may be to pass your genes along.
If you decide to adopt, you are setting a priority on “warping a child in your image” over having a child with your nose. Although this is still a motivation for those with bios.
Some people feel raising a child right is the best thing they can do for the future. And some people think kids will be fun (and they are, most of the time). Some people find kids to be fulfilling, they feel they are missing something, and that something is kids.
Don’t underestimate the power of social pressure. Your mother begging for grandkids, all your friends having them, its what everyone does after they’ve been married a couple of years.
And then there are the people who choose parenthood as a career. In my experience, infertility hits those women particularly hard who have already chosen to be stay at home moms. (I’d assume if their were any men I knew in that boat, they would also be hit harder).
There are the folks who do it to bring them closer together or maybe “fix” their marriage, or tie their spouse to them. Bad reasons, but reasons all the same. And I know a couple of lovely kids who are the result of the “old ball and chain” deciding she needed a stronger chain.
You might as well ask, why do people become elementary school teachers?
Or why do people garden? - its dirty, you spend all that time weeding and watering, and then next year its all dead and you have to start over.
Or why do people become oncologists? Talk about depressing. And long hours, too.
Lets just say some people are motivated by different things than you are. And nobody says, “hey, I want more money and a quieter life, I think I’ll have kids.”
Finally, someone brought up the “G” word!
Our genome is a self-replicating machine, perhaps we are just a vessel for it’s nefarious plans? The genome builds us to procreate, the genome makes sex desirable to ensure procreation happen.
For those who choose not to have children, I say the genome give us something that resembles “free will” in order that we can arrange sex with a partner. In some, that “free will” is a little stronger that is should be, else the genome would be passed on.
As for liking your own children and despising the children of others, the genome is in competition with other genomes and has constructed us to serve that competition.
Just want to comment on the idea of liking your own kids, but not being especially fond of other people’s-- I apologize if this is too much of tangent.
My mom is like that. Wanted a family, adores her own kids, and is fond of the children of close friends or relatives, but is not a “kid person” in general. I don’t have any kids, but I see this trait in myself as well-- and it’s surprising to me that admitting to it IRL can spark what seems like irritation in people who are kid people. And I’m not talking about some confrontational thing, either. I’ve had casual conversations about life plans and dreams with a variety of people who get flat out defensive if I mention my feelings about kids. I actually had somebody snap, “Well, you’re lucky she even had you!” when I referred to my mom’s stance.
I think the reason I’m bringing this up is because it might help those of you with kids understand why some of us kidless folks get defensive, or seem to lack understanding. Sometimes, we get an unbelievable amount of attitude if we dare admit that we like kids on a kid by kid basis, or that we’re not sure yet if we enjoy children enough to have our own. I get sort of on edge myself when people start talking about babies because I expect my own feelings to be questioned, and I think sometimes people who know my thoughts on this get defensive before I’ve even opened my mouth because they assume I’m going to attack their choices.
Please understand that the fact that I feel this way doesn’t mean that I think you’re wrong for having kids, or that I bear any ill will towards you or your family. It just means we have different opinions, at the moment, about a major, life-changing thing. I guess, though, that kids are such a personal, sensitive issue that it’s hard to agree to disagree.
Must…resist…engaging…in…another…“child”…thread…
I used to want to have children, which I see as a result of
having been raised catholic/mormon, social pressure & wanting to redeem myself from low self esteem by pleasing my adopted parents. Around age 28, I had seen enough of my friends get knocked up, married & divorced to recognize a familiar pattern. I decided I didn’t want to pass on the damage. I haven’t felt any desire to have any rug rats since I was about 27 or 28. Maybe some of the desire is physically caused, neuro-chemical in nature & age-related. I don’t know.
What makes this topic interesting to me is that the reasons people have children have changed in the last 100 years or so. It used to be that people had children to inherit land & titles, help with the family business, help with the family farm, and yes, I’m sure people enjoyed their children throughout history. But today, in America at least, there really aren’t a whole lot of reasons to have kids other than you want to have kids. I adore children and am sad that I don’t have any. One day…
It’s human nature. Personally, I am a happy & proud dad. My choice to have a child was both instinctual and volitional. Starting in my mid/late 20s, part of me just wanted a child…probably equated with an emotional sense of familyhood. But I also wanted to connect with, and contribute to, the future. One of my hobbies is genealogy and I also had a sense of continuing my family’s thread.
But maybe that was just my Dawkinsian genes talking. 