It’s a strange example you are using there – I wouldn’t be surprised at all that African Americans often have a negative reaction when confronted by police officers, given how black parents have discussed the sad and tense issues surrounding giving their children “the talk.” I’m not sure if you’re objecting to the issue of whether or not black people have a negative reaction in interactions with police, or if you object to it being termed “fragility” with the implications that come along with that.
But I don’t think the phenomenon of members of a race acting excessively defensive under certain circumstances should be dismissed, just because of some baggage or implications of the word that we choose to describe that phenomenon.
How did Obama become President if racism is debilitating…or did he get on with life…or was it money…and if so… is it money that covers ones inadequacies?
Okay, but what if someone isn’t necessarily calling you a racist or a white supremacist; what if someone says something like “That type of thinking is so typical of white people” or “I think you have unconscious biases that you’re not aware of.”
Whether the claim against you or against white people generally has merit is something that isn’t immediately apparent, which is why I say that you don’t have to agree with someone’s assessment. You can reach a different conclusion. But to just say that you’re not interested in understanding how a black person might understand racism is basically saying you don’t care about racism. People of color are going to find that offensive. Moreover, saying “I don’t care” isn’t just saying “I don’t care;” the embedded message is “And I don’t have to care, either - because we have the power.”
But having said that, I would reiterate my agreement that if someone is making baseless, absurd claims of racism that it injures their cause. Nor do I disagree that it’s probably better to be tactful.
I would dismiss that out of hand due to the generalization of “white people”
“I’m sure I do”
This seems to be stretching to cover more than my response. I care about racism, and I understand, to the best of my ability, how a black person might understand racism. When I say “I don’t care”, I mean I don’t care if a person calls me a racist, since I’m not.
If I may ask, how are you certain of this? Do you just mean that you have no conscious negative feelings towards people based on race? If so, that’s good… but I don’t believe that conscious negative feelings based on race are more than a small fraction of extant racism. IMO, most day-to-day racism comes from unconscious biases, feelings, and reactions. I think we go too easy on ourselves if we don’t continuously search within ourselves for these sorts of unconscious feelings that might add on to racism experienced by others.
I have no conscious negative feelings toward people based on anything except their ability to not be a moron.
As I stated above, if I have unconscious thoughts that indicated prejudice or whatever, I’m not aware of them, since they are unconscious. However, I’m smart enough to recognize if they ever happen to arise in any actions I may take.
That sounds great, just like a Hallmark card. I absolutely believe that unconscious bias exists, but on an individual level it’s essentially unfalsifiable.
Possibly. This is deep in the realm of what individual humans are thinking (and sometimes even beneath that), and we don’t really have anything close to scientifically accurate to make these determinations factually (much less existing nebulousness about what these concepts mean exactly). I’m just encouraging folks to consider that this sort of bias might exist, and that they are not immune to them. Do you believe that you might have some of these sorts of biases, unconsciously? If so, do you sometimes explore your own thoughts and actions to try and eliminate them? Is it possible that your children might be picking up things from broader culture and society that could instill these sorts of unconscious biases in them? Do you teach tehm about these concepts and why they are negative? That’s really all that I’m asking on this particular aspect of the issue. Doesn’t that seem like a reasonable thing to advocate for?
Because most of the racism you think you see isn’t really there, and the words racism and racist are generally used as terms of abuse, not to communicate actual information.
It’s a lens through which situations can be evaluated. There are many other lenses through which subtle impactful bias can be seen, too many for anyone to realistically cover all bases. My one objection or caution here is it can be dangerous to focus on one lens to the exclusion of others.
ISTM white people fall into a trap when they do not acknowledge the complexity or uncertainty of solving this problem beyond some more basic principles most of us can agree on. How do so many go from Point A of introspection to Point X’s like this? https://www.google.com/search?q=“jim+williams”+saskatoon&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiM_9Hzg8PhAhUKW60KHQV_A4QQ_AUIDigB&biw=1600&bih=758
This man’s good intentions inadvertently cause him his appearance in and of itself to be that of a vanilla messiah, where motives of personal glory might be suspected. Articles and commentary are showing how difficult it is out there when one strives to be the most helpful ally one can be; but then has to back off, defer, and let POC have their spaces; but then has to find other ways of doing more, continually performing this awkward dance with more and more rules where their vitality can’t ignore others’ feelings and cross over into appearing like a vanilla messiah.
That may be an awkward example, but it’s likely leading to some folks thinking about the topic when they otherwise might not have. I think that’s a good thing, and IMO outweighs any discomfort that might be caused by the unwieldy presentation. It doesn’t mean that it couldn’t and shouldn’t have been done better, though. One common mistake, in my experience, by well-meaning white progressives, is to unintentionally fail to get input from actual people of color (or women, or LGBTQ folks, or other categories that should provide input on a particular issue) when coming up with a communications strategy for some sort of anti-racism or other social justice campaign.
I’ve got a micro-aggression and iniquities seminar coming up this week, I reserve the right to change my opinion based on that class.
But what’s missing here is any kind of responsibility to not be offended. It was an extremely empowering thing to learn that I choose how I respond to something. You really CAN choose to not get upset over something.
And I’m not seeing that at all from the people that are feeling offended. Was it a misunderstanding? Not important, you’re a racist. Was it intended? Not important, you’re a racist. Is it a learning moment? A failing on your part to understand a nuance? Something completely unrelated?
Communication is a two way street. Is it horribly wrong for me to make a Polack joke? OF COURSE IT IS. And they, much like Dumb Blond jokes died out in the 80’s.
If I can be unconsciously racist, then you can be unconsciously offended. How do we ALL get past that?
So if I read you correctly you are saying that if I see a(nother) white person engage in a(nother) casual act of racism I should choose to not be offended?
How many casual acts of racism should I be subjected to before I get offended?
How many casual acts of racism should I be subjected to before I get mad?
How many casual acts of racism should I be subjected to before I choose to act?
When evaluating a questionable situation, does all of the random racist shit I have had to deal with my entire life contribute to my opinion or should I only include the racist shit I’ve had to deal with over the last year?
How many casual acts of racism can a white person perform before I can safely call them a racist?
Why should I extend the benefit of the doubt to a white person who just performed a casual act of racism?
How long does this situation have to continue before I stand up and starting asking for change?
Can’t white people just stop fucking with other people?
If this whole racism thing had only been around for a few years or a few decades then you might have a point. But the sad fact is this shit has been going on non-stop for hundreds of years. I repeat, non-white people have been waiting for hundreds of years for white people to pull their heads out of their ass over this whole race issue. At what point in time can we start to hold the people who engage in these various acts of racism accountable for their actions and stop trying to put the burden on non-white people to smooth out these questionable interactions?
Do you really care about people feeling offended? Or do you really just want to be able to say whatever you want without anyone telling you how they feel about it? Be honest.
I have a dear friend. She is a old woman at 80-years old. Her mind is still sharp and she’s pretty hip for an old lady, but every so often she says something that makes me think “WTF.” Last week she referred to one of my coworkers as the “darkie one”. Did I say anything? No. I probably would have if she were younger or if she was someone I don’t like. I gave her a variance because I only have so many fucks to give. Perhaps I will revisit this policy if her WTF remarks become more frequent.
At work, I also have no fucks to give when my boss imitates me with a sassy “oh no you didn’t” head bob that I have never done before in my life. I could tell him to stop or I could report him to HR, but I never do because it doesn’t matter that much to me. But am I annoyed when he acts like this? Do I wish I had a boss that had greater social awareness? Sure. And there is nothing with these feelings and thoughts.
You don’t get to tell me that my feelings are misplaced or wrong. If you come out with some racial BS, I am going to feel however I am inclined to feel and think however I am inclined to think. If it is really bad, I might just say something, but chances are I won’t have enough fucks to give. Most minorities are exactly like me. If we said something every time someone said something problematic, we wouldn’t get anywhere in life. So that means if people are telling you that you’re being offensive, you probably really are.
Nope…you’ve completely missed my point. By lumping all whites in one pot, you’ve done the exact thing you’re railing against.
Someone casually acts racist. TELL Them. As an individual. THAT PERSON did something racist. It’s uncool, and unacceptable and needs to stop. It is changing, it’s not an overnight process, and is not evenly distributed.
This is also a self solving problem…eventually.
I’m spacing on the quote but it’s something along the line of change occurring each time an old person dies off. That’s not it, exactly, but that’s the point it’s making.
But until the OP acknowledges that, they risk alienating the folks they want on their side by painting with too broad a brush.
I understand your point as you described it: Black people have a “responsibility” to not be offended by racism and then you go on to spout a bunch of bullshit about how black people need to extend the benefit of the doubt to the racist person in question and properly investigate the matter to ensure there were no misunderstandings.
And just in case you missed the point of my follow up post: FUCK THAT BULLSHIT. If you can’t be bothered to not be racist I can’t be bothered to give a damn why you were racist. No one owes you the benefit of the doubt and it would be great if you stopped assuming we do.
I also included a series of follow up questions designed to help me better understand where people like you think black people should draw the line…and yes, I would like it if you attempted to answer at least a few of the questions if only for the sake of two way communication that doesn’t involve you lecturing black folk on how we should react to racism.
And how the hell am I lumping all white people in one pot, by assuming that the vast majority of racism comes from white people?
I don’t recall…ever…using the word Black. Which makes me think you and I are on entirely different wavelengths and you’re just interested in feeling rage.
ETA: " assuming that the vast majority of racism comes from white people?"