You post in a thread about racism in the United States of America, on a message board based in the United States of America and proceed to lecture people who have experienced racism about how we have a “responsibility” to not be offended by racism and how we should always extend the benefit of the doubt to racist people just in case their intentions are benign…and you think simply omitting the word “Black” changes your message even a little bit? You were clearly directing your message toward non-white people. Were black people not included in your paternalistic little speech? Do you think your bullshit is less offensive if you reference any other type of non-white person?
I do find it interesting that what I describe as a zero tolerance policy toward racist bullshit of all stripes you describe as “feeling rage.” I think that is very telling of your attitude towards these types of subjects.
Once again, we are talking about the United States of America, where the hell do YOU think most of the racism comes from in this country?
And the sake of two-way communication, I would love it if you actually attempted to answer at least one of the questions I have posted above instead of assuming facts not in evidence. Is this too much to ask?
Racism is defined as the discrimination directed toward a group or groups of people based on the belief that one’s own race is superior. I don’t see how a person of color complaining about attitudes and behaviors that he encounters from time to time reinforces the belief that his race is superior; rather, it’s an attempt to stand up against perceived affronts by the ethnic group that actually holds the power. Just because you’re white and someone says something negative about white people doesn’t automatically make the statement “racist”. Racism isn’t just words; it’s power. It’s ideas, rhetoric, and action that reinforce power of the dominant social, economic, and political group, which in the United States is white people.
That doesn’t mean that blacks absolutely can’t be bigoted or that they can’t be offensive. Nor does it sanction any and everything that a person of color says or every idea that he has.
I get what you’re saying and I think it’s not necessarily an unreasonable suggestion. However, racism is something that requires group participation. For racism to work, it requires more than just an individual being a racist; it also requires that other people accept behavior, ideas, and language that are racist, which is why it’s important to make white people more aware of what racism is and what their own biases might be.
This is a crazy definition of racism. What power does the average white person have over any black people?
Under this definition a homeless schizophrenic on the street can be racist but not the President of the United States if he is a minority because the homeless guy has power and the President does not.
Can white people in South Africa or Zimbabwe be racist because they are not in the dominant group?
This seems like a naked attempt to redefine racism so that minorities can hate all they want and still not be racist.
“Not in the dominant group” is not the same as “Don’t believe themselves to be superior”. Despite all the evidence, a lot of South African Whites do still believe themselves superior to Blacks. And so are racist as fuck.
It’s not about what power the “average” white person has over any black people; it’s about the power that white people in total have over black people. More specifically, it is about the history of white America and its use of power over black Americans, and to varying degrees other people of color as well. Why do blacks have comparatively worse outcomes when it comes to poverty, education, health, and the prison population? Why? Because they’ve always been less free to pursue the American dream than whites.
More like an attempt to help you understand what “racism” really is in its totality, going beyond your assumed understanding of the term. I’m not saying that a black person cannot be a bigoted, intolerant asshole. But there’s a difference between a bigoted intolerant asshole and a bigoted intolerant asshole who can injure people by denying them freedom, denying them liberty, and assaulting them with impunity, which white people have been able to do to black people pretty regularly since pretty much the earliest days of this country’s history.
I’ll just leave this right here, please read at your convenience.
Actually, I would describe it as an attempt to stop white people from redefining racism in an effort to excuse their obviously racist beliefs and exclude themselves from any culpability. #NotAllWhitePeople
How can a group have power but a member of that group not have power? That makes no sense.
If a white person has a black boss, the boss can cut his hours, cut his pay, set rules for when and how he works, who his coworkers are, what assignments he works on, or fire him. What power does the white person have over the black boss? none.
Do you really think that a white person can deny a black person freedom, liberty, or assault them with impunity?
Strange scenario to talk about. Only three out of the Fortune 500 CEOs are black. On the plus side, the first Latina joined that club for white people last year. Yay, we’re all equal now!
Well, I really don’t understand why the average, non-racist white person would see a lot of racism.
Large swaths of the US have overwhelmingly white populations. I lived in the pacific northwest and only 1 kid out 500 in my graduating class was black. I simply did not have the exposure. We didn’t sit around talking about black people either. I only recall the n-word being said once growing up by someone I knew, and I was absolutely horrified.
I have lived in a place with a significant black population for the last 20+ years. To my recollection I have never heard anyone disparage a black person publicly or privately.
One time a black guy I know volunteered that he sees white people go from smiling to stoned faced when they look at him at, say, the mall. I have no reason to doubt that’s true. I have no reason to doubt that is true for many black people.
But when I see a black person in public, do a I do a quick scan to see how white people react to them? No. Maybe I should, but that’s just not something I’d think to do.
I would say many white people’s exposure to blatant racism (e.g. “_____ while black”) comes from news stories. That, of course, could vary by location. I don’t live in an area that’s exactly famously racist.
My experience, as a white person when around other white people, has often been the opposite. Growing up in Louisiana and Arkansas in the 80s and 90s, I can recall dozens of times in which a group of young white men would say horribly racist things, with no push back (aside from me, in a few instances in which I mustered the courage). One time the racist banter was lead by a high school football coach with his team. I was on this team but I said nothing.
Most of my experience was with upper middle class white families. In my experience, most were either openly racist or tolerant of racism.
Now, in my office of mostly older white men, I hear variations on hatred of immigrants (including words like filthy, disgusting, repulsive, and similar) and Muslims, with occasional racism against black people. Based on their words, I believe a significant fraction of the older white people in my office are racist or tolerant of racism.
I have an older coworker. He must be approaching 80. He is a quiet man, but.when he has a question for you, it is usually a three-part dealie, with each part being a long slowly delivered, overly detailed paragraph. He is a sweet guy but a bit exasperating.
One day when he came to talk to me, he pointed out that I always frown when he darkens my door. I felt the need to defend myself (“I am not frowning! I just have resting bitch face!”) But I cannot deny I do feel a certain way when he comes to talk to me. Nor do I think it is inconceivable that my resting bitch face could become bitchier at times without me being aware of it.
Indeed, I know it does. I once had a male coworker remark to me that he once saw me walking down the street wearing the scariest face. Ha. I wasn’t the least bit bothered by his observation, even though I have never consciously worn a scary face in my life. I suspect the scary face look I sport on the street is part resting bitch face and part defense mechanism. I would not be the least bit surprised if my face changes depending on whether I unconsciously assess the person approaching me is a potential threat or annoyance (panhandler). Since that mental calculus is happening unconsciously, I can’t say for sure if my facial expressions have a race or gender bias. But I would not be surprised if they do.
Seems to me most white people have at least relative, friend, or acquaintance that is openly racist against one or more groups. Perhaps we can do a poll to see for sure.
The ability to call 911 about someone else is not power, literally every person in America can do that to anyone at anytime. My 4 year old called 911 about me one time, does that mean he had power over me? There is no definition of power that could conceivably be stretched to cover this.
It’s not the ability to call, it’s what happens afterwards. Calling 911 on a black person substantially increases their chance of being harmed or killed in a way that it doesn’t for a white person. At least, unless you think most black people are lying when they describe their experiences with law enforcement.
You do understand that the Fortune CEOs are not the only bosses in America. There are millions of black people who work as bosses, supervisors, principals, and business owners.
What is the point? What power does a white person have over a black person by dint of their race? None that I can think of. and I take it by your non response that you can’t think of one either.