I ask purely out of curiosity. Why was the Pit decided to be the best place for admininstrative complaints?
I’ve always thought the Pit to be the place for expressing anger at another poster about a debate-related situation or frustration with poor handling of a personal/world event or something. It doesn’t seem, to me, to be the most productive forum for working out a poster’s contention with the board or it’s government. Any poster who has a complaint about a moderator or a certain situation seems to find him/herself in a lengthy argument with all the board members, rather than in a civil discussion with the person(s) with whom they have an issue. Even threads that start civilly are able to disintegrate into pissing contests, and in the end, no conclusion is reached.
I’m certainly not suggesting you open another forum for administrative complaints, and I don’t presume that I have any influence over the SDMB staff. I simply wonder why it was decided to use that particular forum for complaints that might be better served in another fashion, and if there might be a more productive way of handling such issues.
Thanks,
Chris
I think this may be the reason that complaints are put in the pit. It seems that most end up as pissing contests regardless of the initial intention. I guess it’s a question of cause and effect: Do threads turn into pissing contests because they’re in the pit, or do they go into the pit because they (often) turn into pissing contests?
First of all, I think most people would agree that putting complaints about the administration in a designated forum (be it the Pit or ATMB) is a good thing (although apparently, some posters just don’t seem to get that rule, even after two years of posting - but I digress). It assures than threads in other fora will remain free of bickering towards the administration. This is good, right?
The choice for the BBQ Pit is then a logical one. Complaints are, by there nature, potential pit threads. You just might want to curse at a moderator, for example. In the Pit, it’s possible. However, this doesn’t mean that a complaint towards the administration can’t be handled with civility. There’s numerous examples of perfectly decent complaints with perfectly decent answers. This question from Demo starts of nice enough - until some people decide to mess with it, and it gets closed. OK, maybe not a stellar example.
But you get the idea: Demo asks his question, and is answered. No bitching between him and the administration in there, just clarifications.
So in short, there’s no need to feel intimidated by the Pit per se. If you phrase your OP politely, and basically ask people to remain civil, they just might do so - and moderators are there to help that process along.
Of course, there’s always ATMB for the more mundane questions about our administration, but I think it’s easy to draw a line between “Hey, why did you edit my post that contained the entire lyrics to the new Britney Spears CD? I’d like to know for the future” (ATMB), and “Coldfire, you sheepshagger, don’t mess with my posts or I’ll kick your ass!” (Pit). Examples polarised for clarity, of course.
Of course, if it’s just one or two of us that the issue relates to, then you can feel free to take it to e-mail. We all have an address visible, and most of us check e-mail more often than the boards.
I just think that the Pit may not be the best spot, because it’s a relatively hostile environment. Though I realize that many complainants are not necessarily polite when bringing up their contentions, it just seems that the Pit atmosphere will make the situation that much more aggravating for all involved.
I don’t exactly have any suggestions to offer or anything, I was just curious. I haven’t had any major complaints, myself, but if I did, I’d be more likely to just email the proper mod/admin (or Ed, if really necessary) rather than putting it on the table for everyone to see.
I honestly think you have a valid point, Chris. The point isn’t that such discussions cannot be civil, that they can neither begin civilly nor end civilly, but that the forum itself is, by definition, a place where people do not have to follow the rules of decorum of the other forums. You could begin a Pit thread questioning the operation here with the noblest of intentions, but in short order it could very well disintegrate into the proverbial pissing contest. Why do people react in this manner in the Pit? Because misbehavior has been facilitated by the forum’s existence.
From Coldfire:
I politely disagree. If I complained about moving a thread and did so with the utmost discretion and comported myself accordingly, then the complaint could be handled in the same manner. It’s not the complaint that causes the thread to become as nasty as it does; it’s the people posting in it. And the people posting in it become as nasty as they do because, in short, they can.
If I posted a Pit thread about the closing of a thread I began, I can expect it to become a shouting match, owing to the very nature of the forum itself. But if I posted a thread in, for example, ATMB, worded in the same polite, decorous manner, we would be more likely to see a very informative, well-received thread. So I believe that the variable in effect here is not the thread itself or the complaintant but rather the forum in which it is posted, to at least some degree. Because there is more leeway in the Pit, more bad things may come of a thread there, however wonderful the intentions.
So it would be fine to complain to a moderator by email, but if I wanted to complain about a moderator the Pit’s the place? If that’s the case it seems pretty clear why all posted complaints belong there, not here.
In an ideal world, it would be possible for rational people to handle polite complaints in a civil manner. In actual practice, though, any thread in ATMB with anything resembling criticism of the moderators invariably attracts the usual swarm of mod-bashers, and the thread turns into a flamefest. When this happens, we end up having to move it to the Pit, regardless of the OP’s intentions. It’s easier all around to just start them off there.
Words to live by, as far as I’m concerned. There’ve been many occasions where a poster asked me about e.g. a closed thread, and all was handled over e-mail, with the upmost civility. Since there’s always a rational reason behind a moderators actions, it can always be explained rationally as well.
The problem with the Pit threads (or threads heading in that direction) is, as Chronos said, that they attract the wrong people for the wrong reasons. Of course, that’s what some people want at times, so I guess there IS a valid place for complaints in the Pit as well.
Words to live by, as far as I’m concerned. There’ve been many occasions where a poster asked me about e.g. a closed thread, and all was handled over e-mail, with the upmost civility. Since there’s always a rational reason behind a moderators actions, it can always be explained rationally as well.**
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There’s certainly a lot of truth to this statement. It is my own opinion that the vast majority of board-related complaints would be handled respectfully if they were done so through e-mail. Not that I find anything inherently wrong with the setup as it is, but there are times when it can be an unpleasant place.
Perhaps many people do not choose to take their complaint to e-mail for one or both of two reasons: They believe their complaint would be of interest to most members of this posting community and/or they wish to overtly antagonize the moderator or administrator in question, to call him or her out, for the purpose of making him or her look bad. That’s not fair to you guys, because quite frankly it’s enough of a chore for you to police the forums for inappropriate or misplaced content than to also police the people who are posting. And yet the only way I can think of to alleviate that thorn from your side would be to ban all public board complaints. That, certainly, would not go over too well with some people, perhaps the ones who feel they have a birthright to cause problems, whether consciously or not.
Oh, it’s not a thorn in our sides. Just something that’s part of the job, and easily ignored if it doesn’t occur TOO often. And also: I have yet to see a valid complaint in the Pit that didn’t result in a moderator admitting his mistake and apologising (yes, it does happen).
