Functionally, I speculate that swearing represents a lame dominance display, much like giving the finger.
We swear when we’re annoyed or angry, setting off the signal to others that we are not to be trifled with.
Swearing is lame as a dominance display, because anybody can do it, regardless of status.
Then again, I swear more than I would like to, out of habit.
Mark Twain gave a firm endorsement, both by example and by essay, of the necessity of having a verbal safety valve. See below for a discussion
[EMAIL=“http://homepage.smc.edu/larsen_lyle/mark_twain_and_the_art_of_sweari.htm”]http://homepage.smc.edu/larsen_lyle/mark_twain_and_the_art_of_sweari.htm
BTW, I have heard (don’t ask for a cite - I don’t have one!) that the flight recorders in aircraft are colloquially know as “Oh Shit Machines” because that’s almost invariably the last words on them.
Yes, thank you; no need to be smart. I was actually asking a valid question. Why do I keep checking out GD? It always bites me in the ass. Maybe I’ll get the hint some day.
I was under the impression that you could use whatever swear words you wanted to, as long as it wasn’t actually directed at another person/group. Or were you being sarcastic? Damn. Sometimes the typed word is really hard to interpret!
Seriously? Are you asking a question? Are you asking if I am one? If this isn’t a whoosh, consider your ignorance fought:
The reason you can’t begin to understand is that you’re misreading what I wrote. I said “swearing is a habit that lazy people CAN fall back on…”.
This does not mean “lazy people ALWAYS swear.”
This does not mean “all swearing is done by lazy people.”
There is no prejudice, except in your mind. It’s a very simple statement. If one doesn’t want to take the time and effort to think of the right word (e.g., one is linguistically lazy), then swearing is an easy way out. Do you really disagree with that?
And, by the way, you said “People who swear do it because that’s the way they’ve always done it; that’s just how they talk.” How is that not the definition of “habit”? How is that not “remotely similar” to my point?
See above. I said CAN, not “always does.”
Again, read the argument. Swearing IS NOT equal to lazy. Swearing is a tool for lazy people. It’s also a tool for intelligent, erudite people who know just the right time and place for a good profanity, and they can make it really effective.
And some people use it as filler, like um, er, ah, and like. When someone says, “I fuckin’ went to the latest fuckin’ Jean-Claude Van-fuckin’-Damme movie at the fuckin’ theater night before fuckin’ last, but I was so fucked up I can’t fuckin’ remember the fuckin’ plot,” the profanity adds nothing to the sentence (not even emphasis, because it’s so overused). When such a sentence is uttered loudly in a public place I consider it rude, thoughtless, and obnoxious.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with ending a sentence with a preposition. Many sentences read much better that way, in fact.
There is no prohibition about swearing on the SDMB outside the Pit, as long as it’s not being used to insult or belittle other posters.
And, Hazle, your link to the Urban Dictionary points out one of the things I dislike about profanity: it seems to mean something different to everyone. Call one guy a “cunt” and he’ll laugh at you (“cunts are women, you idiot!”); but say it to another guy and he’ll punch your lights out. Despite some of the carefully-explained definitions in this thread, most profanity has little objective meaning and no nuance. The word “fuck” is so horrendously overused that it means nothing most of the time. It’s a noise word.
Yes. In fact, the entire idea of casual conversation requiring ‘time and effort’ to participate in is bullshit. Writing requires effort and careful forethought. Public speaking requires at least careful forethought. Conversation requires forethought to the extent of occasionally pausing and collecting your thoughts; but nobody plans out their next sentences to the very word while conversing, do they? Conversational ability is a function of your vocabulary, personality and perhaps simple talent, but not the amount of work put into it. I contend that the word ‘laziness’ simply doesn’t apply to everyday conversation; it is as natural as breathing. And if everyday conversation is imperfect through variations in personality, vocabulary and innate ability, our more carefully planned out works (TV shows, movies, novels, etc.) will occasionally reflect that. By all means, bitch about the work ethics in professional journals and the press. But everyday language is a habit for you, it is a habit for me, for those who swear, and those who don’t.
If you’re just saying “lazy people swear”, that isn’t even an argument. Lazy people do a lot of things. That doesn’t automatically make it wrong for non-lazy people to do them.
Maybe the speaker thought it added character? Maybe he liked the rhythm of the sentence better that way. It doesn’t matter because there are lots of other ways to sound annoying as hell when you talk that don’t have anything to do with profanity. Sure, some people overdo it.
Some people would say that’s their great strength. “Fuck” is the most versatile word in the English language. Understanding its meaning in context has a lot to do with nonverbal cues and familiarity with the person saying it. That is a common trait among a great many of the words in our language, profanity being a very small set.
InvisibleWombat:
Your need to post post no. 106 is precisely why I’ve dropped out of this debate. The points you have made, which are the points that I and others have also made just don’t seem to get through to some posters. They have been made over and over, seemingly to no effect. It’s not just that people have disagreed with them (which is the point of a debate), but they seem to misinterpret them, which leads to endless repitition. Some examples: shit in the garage, the meaningless use of swear words, and the lazy issue.
G’morning!
I’m an author and in the home stretch of completing an epic saga - 7 x 650-page, 6 x 9 novels, with an eighth, the same length, not due for release for a year after the original series. This series contains roughly 2.5 million words, 5,200 pages, and took seven years to write.
I write in the Urban Christian Fiction genre (‘they’ added the ‘Urban,’ and ‘they’ are the thought police who decide what is and isn’t appropriate reading for Christians) and I write real.
My present and ongoing argument with my editor is over one word (out of the 2.5 million). I have a surgeon saying ‘Shit!’ when his patient is about to bleed out. I’m an ND, I’ve done three years pre-med, and I guarantee no surgeon is going to say ‘Suffering jellybabies’ or ‘Oops’ in that particular circumstance. I refuse to remove it and don’t believe any Christian hasn’t heard the word hundreds of times before. The surgeon in this scenario isn’t even a Christian, so it’s not as if it’s being held up as the ideal thing to say.
Writing ‘Sam cursed’ more than once or twice is downright boring.
The other argument I’m having is over love scenes, not sex scenes, but love scenes, and nothing that isn’t tasteful, but TPTB say we aren’t allowed to mention ‘Anything below the neck.’ They Song of Solomon in the Bible certainly does, so why can’t we? It’s normal, beautiful, and yes, erotic, but then, so is the Song of Solomon.
I haven’t removed any love scenes, and don’t intend to, thus I’m stuck with the label ‘Urban Christian Fiction.’
I’m sorry, but in real life, a ‘shit,’ ‘damn,’ or a ‘helluva’ is what some characters will say in any credible work of fiction. The hero and heroine don’t, of course, and should they happen to slip, authors must right, ‘Sam cursed.’ Ya-a-awn… and aaaaaaaargh! express my dominant feelings on the subject at present.
Are you offended by reasonably benign words, such as those mentioned above, in works of fiction?
Shalom Aleichem - Jesse.
If you’re putting the above up for debate: no - as has been explained many times before. As a person: no. But, I’m an atheist, not a Christian, so I couldn’t say how a Christian would take it.
G’mornin’ Nine To The Sky!
I think I’d better start another thread as I don’t want to hijack this one.
So, you’re an atheist, but you have a conscience, and no two people are alike whether atheist or Christian (or those who fall under any other label).
Personally, I try not to swear at all, but what I view as swearing will differ from what another may. I go for months without saying ‘Shit!’ and I work hard at it. Then there are those times when life becomes beyond overwhelming and I’ve been known to say worse then - not a lot worse, I suppose, by modern standards, but I’ll say something which I myself don’t like to hear.
Why is ‘Shit’ worse than ‘dung’ (a word used by the Apostle Paul in the Bible and not in reference to feces), poop, excrement, or any other word used to describe human waste matter?
Language morphs continually, and you’re from the UK, as am I. A ‘swear word’ here may be inoffensive in England and vice versa, and what we say in Scotland may be inappropriate in England, and vice versa. As a writer writing for a global audience, this is extremely frustrating. The most innocent of expressions in one place is thought scandalous in another. The bottom line is, no matter what one writes, one is going to offend someone somewhere.
Thanks for answering my question, Nine. I’ll start another thread relating to written words.
Have a spectacular day - Jesse.
What makes you think I have a conscience? 
A very good question, in the same way as why ‘fuck’ and not ‘copulation’?
I love your salutations. Have a good one yourself.
Hello again, Nine!
From my persepective only, the word ‘fuck’ sounds demeaning to the act of making love. However, if it’s applied to ‘casual sex’ then perhaps it’s apropos. ‘Copulation’ doesn’t sound too romantic and wouldn’t get me into the thank you room ;), so again, we’re left with what any word means to whomever says it and hears it.
Oh, and I believe you have a conscience because your writing indicates beyond question that you care. Sociopaths (those without conscience) don’t care.
Cheers - Jesse.
P.S. Quick little true story. You already know that I’m a naturopath. One of my sons, when he was twelve-years-old, was working in a bicycle repair shop for a few weeks that summer. A tourist came in and asked him what his parents did, and he told them I was a missionary and psychopath. ROFLOL!
Since when is precision a necessary component of all words in every language?
Since when is emotional precision less valuable than factual precision?
I agree that in the “went to the fucking bank and the fucking cocksucker said fuck fuck shit” example, the amplifiers lose their meaning — but that would be true of any genetic non-profane* amplifier word in its place, for instance “stupid.” It is not because the word is imprecise, it is because the speaker is.
Since when did I say that it was?
As I keep reminding people here, I’m addressing the specific claim (stated more than once in this thread) that foul words are every bit as precise as the terms for which they substitute. Obviously, this is NOT logically equivalent to saying that every single word in the English language must be exactingly precise.
Unfortunately, several people here apparently insist on threating the two claims as though they were one and the same. It’s enough to make an English teacher cry.
You don’t think about what you’re saying when you say it? I certainly do. I pick my words based on where I am and who I’m talking to. I constantly adjust based on whether I’m speaking to technical people, young people, gamers, and so forth. I don’t know where you came up with the phrase “time and effort,” but it wasn’t from me–this process is natural and easy.
Are you just picking a word or two out of what I write, or actually reading for context? I didn’t say “lazy people swear” (I know lots of lazy people who don’t swear and non-lazy people who do), and I didn’t say swearing is “wrong.” I think you’re attributing other people’s opinions to me.
I really don’t think we’re getting anywhere in this discussion.
Their strength? A word being meaningless is it’s greatest strength? The word “fuck” has its strengths, but I’d call its almost total loss of meaning due to overuse its greatest weakness. And, by your argument, “um” and “like” would be candidates for most versatile word, too. That meme is hogwash.
We’re definitely not getting anywhere.
Wasn’t that the piece in which he suggested that swearing took the place of possible violence?
I don’t a whole lot to add to what others have said, but when I am hammering nails and smash my thumb AGAIN, ya know, I just have to say something :eek: