Why do women always seem to want a boyfriend they don't need to sleep with?

[kimera]

@Lizard

And women see it as an “offer,” when in reality it is a consolation prize for guys who aren’t good enough for them. And we know it.

Please. :rolleyes: I have a great time with a guy, but I just don’t like him. I want to be friends and hang out and have fun because we have WONDERFUL conversations together but he gets pissed because I won’t sleep with him and stops hanging out with me.

Who’s the asshole here?

You want to fuck me but I DON’T WANT TO FUCK YOU.

It isn’t a ‘consolation prize’ it’s just me not wanting to fuck. Can you understand that or is your dick still getting in the way? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

It’s unfortunate but true that most men have only a finite amount of time, energy, and treasure to expend on meeting women. Should they dissipate themselves on women who have made it clear they will never be anything more than friends, or find what they need elsewhere? And I’m not just talking about sex, nor am I ignorant of the possibility of a balance being struck. But your example describes a woman who IS ignorant of that.

So again, you say that women are not worth your time unless you can eventually fuck them. Forgive me if I find this HIGHLY OFFENSIVE!!

I’ve had assholes say this to me in person. One time I was hanging out with a guy and then he tried to kiss me at the end of the night. It came totally out of left field for me, I thought we were just being friends. When I pulled away and told him as such he said “So I am just wasting my time here?” :mad: :mad:

I had a GREAT time with him as a friend. I wanted to continue to hang out with him as a friend. But when I wouldn’t put out I wasn’t even friends material anymore!? What a fucking bitch.

[Cheesesteak]

For some reason you took my quote “who I don’t want to be romantic with” to mean that there was no attraction on either side. There are times when a woman is attracted to a man, and he’s not similarly attracted back, THAT is your situation, with the genders switched.

Ok, so there’s a lady out there who you’re attracted to and has said she wants to only be friends. Same thing happened to me, and we’re still friends. Same thing happened going the other way (switch genders), and we’re still friends. Same thing happens to you and you’re pissed off at her.

I also don’t get this “finite time” thing. Female friends take no more time and effort than male friends, do you avoid becoming friends with guys because you need time to meet women?

[FinnAgain]

@CrazyCatLady

See, this is why I will NEVER understand men. I just don’t understand how saying, “Look, I like you. The spark just isn’t there, but you’re a nice guy and fun to be around, and I’d like to continue hanging out with you,” is condescending. It just boggles my mind, frankly.

When I was a young’un I would’ve definitely understood that emotion. Think of it this way, you find a girl who likes being around you, laughs at your jokes, etc, and she likes being around you too. And, what’s more, she turns you on. Now, you know (or think) that you’re a good person and pretty attractive, so if she already thinks you’re cool…

it’s almost like she’s saying you’re not attractive/enjoyable enough to date. Like you’re just not good enough.

Yes, there’s no way to avoid feeling that way when you’re young and/or insecure.
Yes, most guys grow out of that and realize what chemistry is. But for a college age guy, for instance, it’s not exactly easy.

@CrazyCatLady

I think that men and women will never see this situation from anything remotely like the same perspective.

I don’t think that’s true. All men don’t see things the same way, just like all women don’t.

@CrazyCatLady

Men apparently look at an offer of friendship when they want something else as an insult, which is not how it’s intended. (Trust me, if we just wanted you to fuck off, we’d give you the “it’s just not working out” speech, not the “let’s be friends” speech.)

Well, it is a blow to the ego, most likely no matter how old you are. Someone’s just told you that you’re not attractive to them, and let’s admit, all of us, men and women, like to be found attractive.

The responsible response evolves when a man realizes that things just work or they don’t, and that you’re not going to be a turn on for everybody, and that yah it sucks and sometimes hurts, but it isn’t a woman’s fault.

@CrazyCatLady

Women, otoh, often see refusal to try the friends thing as an insult. It says to us, “Well, if you’re not going to be putting out, you’re not worth spending time with,” making us feel like you view us not as people, but as nothing more than potential warm holes to stick it in. That’s why some women tend to be pretty harsh on guys who bitch about the offer of friendship from someone they wanted to sleep with.

I’m sure often guys are saying “I can’t get my dick wet, so I’m going to stop spending time with you.”

But I’m sure, just as often, guys are saying “Jeez, I can’t look at you without wanting to hold you in my arms, so it’s going to be really hard if not impossible for me to be around you as just a friend, I’m sorry.”

Just my 2.3 cents.

[MysteryFellow63427]

@Rick

Sounds like the OP needs to read about the Ladder Theory
Read and learn friend.

That’s some pretty wild rhetoric on that site.

[MysteryFellow63427]

Upon further review, that site is just an authoritative looking encapsulation of one misogynist’s views, based on his years of experience of being shot down in bars.

[Cheesesteak]

@Lizard

I wish you were right, but you’re not. I point-blank asked the woman in question one night if what we just had was a date. I got a vague, wishy-washy response that she “likes to hang out with people as friends and see how it goes,” and that I “think too much.” This remains the only input I have, two months and several eetings for dinner, etc. later. Not yes, not no, not anything in particular. I’ve about resolved that SOMEBODY should make up their mind, and if it’s not her, then it will be me.

Well, this is certainly the additional info I think we needed in this thread! If you have gone out several times, over 2 months, and haven’t so much gotten at least one good kiss out of it, you’re not dating, not in my book. If you’re hanging out “as friends” I assume she’s paying her side, RIGHT??? If she’s not, then I’d say you’re damn right that she’s treating you like half a boyfriend, company and a wallet, with nothing on the romance/relationship side. If she’s paying her own way, well then, she’s just hangin out, nothing wrong with that.

Wishy-washy stuff like that piss me off, got no use for it.

[World_Eater]

@Lizard

It’s unfortunate but true that most men have only a finite amount of time, energy, and treasure to expend on meeting women. Should they dissipate themselves on women who have made it clear they will never be anything more than friends, or find what they need elsewhere?

If you’re truly smart, you stay friends, because the best way to meet new women, is through a women. The sweet part is, if you’re not an asshole after the "let’s be friends deal (and most guys are), then she’ll be more then happy to put a good word in for you.

[Charlie_Tan]

@Rick

Sounds like the OP needs to read about the Ladder Theory
Read and learn friend.

:smack:
I missed that post when readin the thread.
again: :smack:

[zephyrine]

OK, let’s be charitable here.

You meet a woman, you both apppear to be attracted to each other, she’s flirting with you more than she flirts with other people, seems to enjoy your company, etc.: all the signals she’s sending out encourage you to believe that you might have some kind of future as a couple. You make your move, she says no thanks, lets be friends. She’s a bitch. You were feeding her ego, and she enjoyed it, but you aren’t really who she’s interested in. Don’t bother being friends with her.

Move it along a bit - she starts out sending signals, but then you get confused about what signals she IS sending, although she still seems to enjoy your company etc,. In this case, she probably considered you from a romantic viewpoint, before changing her mind. She still likes you, and she really does want you as a friend.

Moving along yet again: you’re attracted to her, but you can’t tell what signals she’s sending out, apart from (presumably) that she enjoys your company. There’s probably no way of knowing what she’s thinking until you make your move, and that’s when you may find out that she never even considered you romantically. Alternatively, she may have been hoping you were interested in her, but was too shy to show that she was interested in you.

Can she tell what signals you’re sending out? She may think that you just want to be friends, and is completely unaware that you want a different relationship, and she may not react how you would like her to when you make your move.

This is why having mutual friends in common is so useful: the whole “my friend likes your friend” thing from school never goes away, it just grows up.

And to answer the original rant: Nope, as most women posters have pointed out, the majority of women don’t want a boyfriend they don’t need. Lots of them want boyfriends, and lots of them want friends. And then, as I mentioned before, there are some bitches who do want the emergency-fuck standby, just as there are some men who want the same thing. These types are best avoided.

[World_Eater]

BTW, I’ll also add that analyizing things is a real turn off to most women. Let the relationship go where it goes.

[Necros]

@ava

Please. :rolleyes: I have a great time with a guy, but I just don’t like him. I want to be friends and hang out and have fun because we have WONDERFUL conversations together but he gets pissed because I won’t sleep with him and stops hanging out with me.

Who’s the asshole here?

No one’s the asshole here. He wanted a relationship that included the physical, you didn’t. At this point, it is appropriate to go your separate ways. He shouldn’t hang out with you, because what he wants from a relationship is different than what you want, and vice versa. This is a perfectly natural thing to happen.

When things go awry is when men think, “OK, she said no, but I’ll change the way she thinks, and she’ll want me.” This almost never works, and mostly ends with hurt feelings and bitterness.

The other way things get messed up is when women think, “OK, he wanted a romantic relationship, but I didn’t, so I’ll ask him to change what kind of relationship he wants in order to suit me.” This is selfish, and I think what Lizard is talking about when he talks about “We can’t have the relationship you want, only the relationship I want.”

The appropriate, adult thing to do when two people have completely different goals for a relationship is to discontinue the relationship. Not “just be friends.” Not “work on her.”

[zephyrine]

@Lizard

I wish you were right, but you’re not. I point-blank asked the woman in question one night if what we just had was a date. I got a vague, wishy-washy response that she “likes to hang out with people as friends and see how it goes,” and that I “think too much.” This remains the only input I have, two months and several eetings for dinner, etc. later. Not yes, not no, not anything in particular. I’ve about resolved that SOMEBODY should make up their mind, and if it’s not her, then it will be me.

Ahem. Maybe I should look to see if there are any more posts while I’m composing mine, and having a snack while composing it…

You got your answer. It’s up to you now to decide whether to just be friends or drop her. She’s trying to AVOID having the whole “lets be friends conversation”.

[badbadrubberpiggy]

@Lizard

And women see it as an “offer,” when in reality it is a consolation prize for guys who aren’t good enough for them. And we know it.
.

Well, I don’t think any of my guy friends aren’t “good enough” for me, they’re just not RIGHT for me, and that’s the bottom line. They are wonderful, smart, funny, unique, etc, guys, who would make somebody a great girlfriend. But not me, and not because they’re “not good enough” for me.

And you know, when you don’t accept a woman’s friendship because you only want to be her boyfriend/lover, you’re asking for the relationship YOU want, not what SHE wants. It’s basically like saying, “I’m sorry, but I only want the relationship that I want - you are my girlfriend or nothing”

[Lizard]

@ava

So again, you say that women are not worth your time unless you can eventually fuck them. Forgive me if I find this HIGHLY OFFENSIVE!!

Well, I can forgive you, but I would recommend you hone your reading comprehension, since I said in the very passage you quoted yourself:

@Lizard

It’s unfortunate but true that most men have only a finite amount of time, energy, and treasure to expend on meeting women. Should they dissipate themselves on women who have made it clear they will never be anything more than friends, or find what they need elsewhere? And I’m not just talking about sex, nor am I ignorant of the possibility of a balance being struck. But your example describes a woman who IS ignorant of that.

So, care to try again?

One time I was hanging out with a guy and then he tried to kiss me at the end of the night. It came totally out of left field for me, I thought we were just being friends. When I pulled away and told him as such he said “So I am just wasting my time here?” :mad: :mad:
I had a GREAT time with him as a friend. I wanted to continue to hang out with him as a friend. But when I wouldn’t put out I wasn’t even friends material anymore!? What a fucking bitch.

Yes, he does sound like a cad. And you sound naive. But pulling away after one attempted kiss is hardly “refusing to put out.” Who do you think you are, the Queen of Sheba?

[zephyrine]

@FinnAgain

…
it’s almost like she’s saying you’re not attractive/enjoyable enough to date. Like you’re just not good enough.

…
Well, it is a blow to the ego, most likely no matter how old you are. Someone’s just told you that you’re not attractive to them, and let’s admit, all of us, men and women, like to be found attractive.

It’s not necessarily to do with attractiveness (physical or spiritual). Sometimes you just know that it won’t work out, and you’re not willing to risk losing everything just in case it does. I have men friends that I think are amazingly attractive in all senses, but there are reasons (on either side) why a romantic/sexual relationship would be doomed to failure. That doesn’t affect the fact that I still think thay are extremely attractive (and possibly doable, in the abstract).

[Lizard]

@Lizard

Yes, he does sound like a cad.

And I meant because of what he said, not because he tried to kiss you.

[Lizard]

@zephyrine

Ahem. Maybe I should look to see if there are any more posts while I’m composing mine, and having a snack while composing it…

You got your answer. It’s up to you now to decide whether to just be friends or drop her. She’s trying to AVOID having the whole “lets be friends conversation”.

I am afraid you may be right, hence this thread. But why would she do that? Doesn’t that mean (if true) that she’s just keeping me hanging?

[zephyrine]

@Lizard

I am afraid you may be right, hence this thread. But why would she do that? Doesn’t that mean (if true) that she’s just keeping me hanging?

It could well be, and that’s not very nice of her. Back off a bit, and see if she initiates any more wishy washy dates with you.

But I think the fact that you brought the whole: “Is this a date?” issue up, and she fudged the issue, probably isn’t a good sign.

[MandaJo]

@Lizard

I am afraid you may be right, hence this thread. But why would she do that? Doesn’t that mean (if true) that she’s just keeping me hanging?

You know how you keep saying that being rejected hurts?

Rejecting people hurts too, especially a person you like and respect.

Now, it’s still better to be up-front and not drag things out, but when you have some unpleasant task to complete–something that is gonna end with you making someone you really like feel a lot of pain–and it never has to be done right this minute, well, it’s easy to avoid it. Only a sadist is gung-ho and eager to hurt someone else. Now, I know it’s more cruel and more painful to leave you hanging, but it’s more often behavoir born of weakness than of malice or self-interest.

Now then, notice that what we are talking about is the exact opposite of the OP, where you WERE describing a woman being up-front about her lack of romantic interest. Yes, it’s painful news. but it’s more honorable to give it staight up. As far as the “lets be friends” thing–remember–rejecting someone makes you feel like a bitch, if it’s someone your really like and admire it can make you really hate and loathe yourself. The urge to amelieorate the blow somehow is intense–It’s like hitting someone with your car and breaking their leg–you have a sudden desperate urge to do something, anything, to make it better, even if you really can’t. Sometimes this comes out as saying stupid things, or wise things in stupid ways or at the wrong time.

[aruvqan]

I have a husband, who is first and formost my friend. I have Max, who is first and formost a friend, who happens to be male. I have Jackie who is first and formost a friend who happens to be female that prefers females. Max and Jackie had previously asked me to become a lover, but when that was declined, remained friends.

I can remember going on 3 or 4 dates, and deciding it was not going to work, and the guy totally refused to remain a friend after that, when we had been friends for from 4 months in one case to 3 years in another case. I can not understand how someone could go from being a friend, to dating for a week to refusing to even remain friends as we had been for 3 years

I can also remember friends who turned down an offer of a relationship from me and remained friends, and a couple who refused to have anything to do with me afterwards.

What could have possibly changed in ME in that week of dates to make me abhorent enough to ditch a 3 year friendship All I can remember of the few weeks after that was deep puzzlement and wondering if all I was good for was a piece of ass being held in reserve for when he dumped his latest girlfriend and couldnt find another one…and being incredibly hurt at being considered just a convenient hole.