Why do women always seem to want a boyfriend they don't need to sleep with?

I’m confused by what you are trying to say here.

I have lots of friends, of both genders, that I have no interesting in being intimate with. Does that mean I am condescending to all of them?

There really are 2 different relationships being talked about here. Friendship and sexual/romantic. Sometimes the 2 people don’t classify the relationship the same way (one thinks if it as friendship, the other as a potential romantic relationship), but that doesn’t mean anyone is being condescending. Just different expectations.

For me, if I tell someone I’m interested in a friendship, I’m interested in a friendship. I enjoy spending time with them. I like their company and conversation. It does NOT mean I’m keeping them around as a backup fuck.

Bullshite. He’s not asking her to be something she’s not. He’s expressing frustration because she doesn’t feel about him the way he feels about her. That’s normal. His being disappointed that she doesn’t return his feelings makes him egotistical and a mysoginist? On what fucking planet?

No reason. But that’s not the scenario we’re talking about here. See above. We’re talking a relationship whose exact nature has never been determined.

The problem here (and it’s the same problem that 95% of the problem relationships out there) is that the reason she does not know that it hurts is because you have not told her that it hurts.

Don’t hint at it. Don’t think she should have figured it out. Don’t beat around the bush.

If you *want * her to know that you’re hurt (or happy, or sad, or turned on, or excited, or lonely, or whatever), then you have to *tell * her that you’re hurt (or etc.). It is absolute bullshit to assume otherwise.

I guess I stung you when I said you were egotistical, huh?

Okay, you are saying that if you shake a girl’s hand and she says, “I want a friend,” that’s okay. But if you don’t know, and you try to kiss her and she says, “I want a friend,” then this rant applies? Does that make sense to you?

Women know full well that rejection hurts. What’s wrong with trying to have a friend? Better than never talking to the person again. Believe it or not, you can be a strong person and value someone for more than sex. If you refuse a friendship because that person won’t fuck you – and you see that as condescending? What? They just don’t want to sleep with you, that’s all! – then you are a poorer person.

First of all, please spell the word right. It’s “misogyny” or “misogynist.” Thanks.

I saw it as more than his just being disappointed that she doesn’t return his feelings. Look at this sentence:

This takes it beyond disappointment. This takes it into the realm of “You must do what I want” which is egotistical. You really think that expecting a person to conform to your ideas about a relationship ISN’T egotistical? Expecting them to be who you want them to be, and not who they are, isn’t egotistical? On what fucking planet?

Sounds like the OP needs to read about the Ladder Theory
Read and learn friend.

As far as understanding women, don’t forget the punch line to the joke “Do you want that highway to be two lanes or four?” :slight_smile:

Work on your antennae, son. Situation got hurtful and anxious because you pursued an unobtainable goal. You pursued that goal probably because you failed to recognize that you were not under consideration for the positions you were applying for. The signal was almost certainly there, but you missed it.

The good news is that the “yes! go! green!” signal is usually tuned to your level of sensitivity, she would prefer a subtly erotic signal gratefully received, but is usually willing to incease the signal amperage as needed, up to and including a whack in the back of the head with a bat.

Trust that you will get the message. Trust as well that women are human, which is to say they are just like men, only better.

To paraphrase the great Adam Carolla, women are like cars. When they’re pretty new with very little mileage on them, they’re thinking, “This is too much car for you - you can’t afford it.” But when they get a few dings, and the odometer’s reading pretty high, and the paint’s starting to fade…

Another funny one I heard, but I can’t remember which comedian it was: Regarding the “want to be friends” women - they say, “You know, I want a guy who’s just like you…but not you.” :smiley:

I do not assume the most base motivation, honest. But the OP clearly states he thinks he’s a “boyfriend” that she doesn’t want to sleep with. I could have said it better, and no doubt should have. Rejection hurts, always. And the Pit is a good place to let it out. But the OP is working under a misapprehension and I felt I should point it out to him before it happens again. Which it will if he doesn’t make his feelings clear pretty early on. If he hasn’t learned to read the friend versus lover signals yet, he needs to take on the burden of asking. And possibly looking foolish. But at least he’ll know where he stands.

This is truly amazing, CrazyCatLady. You have a gift with words :slight_smile:

Ok, so in the process of determining the exact nature of the relationship, he says he wants to be romantic and she says she just wants to be friends. Why is this insulting, or condescending? There are plenty of perfectly nice women out there who I don’t want to be romantic with, but would enjoy being friends with, I don’t see any problem whatsoever with this. I’ve been friends with women who have rejected my advances, and I’ve been friends with women who I’ve rejected. It’s not that big a deal.

and by the way…don’t be talking down screwing…earth-shattering love is a wonderful thing, but sometimes all you want is a hot sweaty screw. And that is not a gender issue. Although there are plenty of people who want you to think it is.

And women see it as an “offer,” when in reality it is a consolation prize for guys who aren’t good enough for them. And we know it.

It’s unfortunate but true that most men have only a finite amount of time, energy, and treasure to expend on meeting women. Should they dissipate themselves on women who have made it clear they will never be anything more than friends, or find what they need elsewhere? And I’m not just talking about sex, nor am I ignorant of the possibility of a balance being struck. But your example describes a woman who IS ignorant of that.

Ladder Theory? GGGGRRRRRR!!!

Oh, I think I understand now.

What you’re looking for just isn’t a friendship. Or a relationship. What you’re looking for is a co-dependent relationship, where you can escape from the problems of real life, and disconnect from your family and other friends (all male at this point, of course).

What people need are relationships. If all goes according to plan, you should have made more friends than partners. If not, then you’ve been burning too many damn bridges along the way. Stop doing that.

We are talking about the OPPOSITE SITUATION from this. That is, 180 degrees from the example you’re citing. Obviously, if there is no attraction on either side, then there is no problem.

You are completely wrong. I have more female than male friends; in fact on average, i get along with women much better than men. But my female friends are all either married, 20 years older than me, or otherwise “off the market.” I am also quite close to most of my family, and would never cut them out in favor of a relationship with anyone. Any woman who expected that would find herself out of the picture.

I certainly have burned some bridges in my day, but I’m still a long way from having more relationships than friendships. Some of those bridges needed burning. It was cetainly better than a constant reminder of what I wanted and couldn’t have, through no fault of my own.

We have a saying in Swedish, which roughly translates: “Nice guys don’t get to kiss pretty girls.” I know many women will start saying “That’s not true - I do want a nice guy.” Well, yeah. Then why do rock stars get the cutest babes and librarians stay single all their lives?

For those who buy into this kind of thinking, I offer The Ladder Theory.

I don’t, not fully, but there’s some truth in it. If I continue with the generalizations, I’d say that most women abhor guys who are wuzzes or whimps. The definition of such differ widely from woman to woman, but I think most women prefer their men to be assertive, have the ability to keep a cool head.

Many guys spend a lot of time in gyms and buy expensive cars. The best comment about things like that I ever heard was from a girl who said: “Beer bellies are, of course, digusting. But if the beer belly is on a cute guy, then it’s a cute beer belly.”

So far, only some random thoughts. Now to Gaspode’s guide to happy dating for clueless guys:

  1. It doesn’t matter how hard you try. If something’s gonna happen, it will happen. Fancy restaurants, flowers, expensive gifts - all this will only serve to make the woman feel that you expect her to pay you back somehow. Most often with sex. A cup o’ coffee and your company should be enough to find out if there is some sparkage. If there is - you can go on and up the efforts to show her how you feel. But first date should be simple and casual. Preferably in a situation where either of you can get out, should it not feel right. Dinner and movie is classic, but why? You can’t see or talk to the person during the movie and if it 's even slightly awkward, it’ll be worse for sitting in the dark with a stranger for two hours.
    Also - If you try too hard, you’ll come off as desperate, something almost all women hate. See next point.
  2. Be casual. If the first date feels good, leave without trying to make a new appointment or plans. Don’t say you’re gonna call her, don’t try to follow her inside her house. Just say thank you for a pleasant evening and leave. Whatever you do - do not turn around. If you do - she’ll have the upper hand. And remember that women like guys who’re assertive.
    The first date might have four outcomes: There’s sparkage or not for either of you.
  • If there’s no sparkage for you or her, then all you’ve lost is some time and a few bucks. No biggie.
  • There’s sparkage for her, but not you. This is one of the reason not trying to make new plans or get into her pants. Don’t think with your dick, because it’ll only be a burden later on. You’ll have a girl that’s clingy and won’t leave you alone, much the same way I feel women view the OP.
  • There’s sparkage for you and not for her. Get out. Suck it up. If she wants to be friends, think about it. Do you need more friends or do you want a girlfriend. I have enough friends, I don’t need another. If you don’t need another, then you’ll only invite misery, being frustrated about being near a person you like/desire/love when that person is not interested in you that way. Why would you torment yourself that way? It won’t matter how hard you try. It simply won’t happen. Move on.
  • There’s sparkage for the two of you. Now, you don’t know this at this point, so now is the time to play it cool. Don’t call her for at least three days. You wait for her. Maybe she’ll call, maybe not. If she does, she’ll play it cool and make it an inconsequential matter (“Sorry to bother you, but did I leave my gloves in your car when you drove me home?” [note: If she actually did that and calls the next day, it’ll be no indication that she’s interested]). When she’s doing this, she’s pushing the initiative over your way. How do you handle it? Casually. Don’t ask her what she’s going to do on Friday. She might have plans and then things’ll get awkward again. USe something from your first date. If you’re going to be somewhat compatible you have at least one interest in common (“Hey, that Warhol retrospective is opening next week - do you want to come with me and see it?”). Try to make it as openended as possible, still leaving her the opportunity to back out. If she’s interested, she’ll bite at the hook.
    If three days have gone by and she hasn’t called, then she’s better at keeping cool than you are. It’s your move buddy. So now you’ll have to come up with some inconsequential excuse to call her and try to reverse the gaming board.
  1. If nothing has happened in three dates - it won’t. This is a rule of thumb, not a natural law. But if there’s sparkage from you both, then at least some making out, a kiss outside her door or wild sex on the kitchen floor - any sexual manifestation at all is good. But if there’s nothing, chances are you mistook her feelings for you or the sparkage died.

Two more rules of thumb:

  • If you win her heart by giving her a rose a day, you must keep giving her a rose a day to keep her heart.
  • Stick to the attitude of not turning around when you leave her. Leave her wanting more. Leave when you’re sure there’s sex in her plans, with some plausible exscuse. Never make plans for the next date when ending the current one. The longer you can postpone making commitments, the better it is. The reason is that women almost always have the upper hand in dating. Men make the move, women reject or accept. If you make her a little unsure about your feelings, despite this, you can postpone her taking you for granted. This doesn’t mean that you should be afraid of or never make commitments, just that you should try to keep her on her toes, making her try a little, since it’ll make you more interesting.

Best of luck.

I wish you were right, but you’re not. I point-blank asked the woman in question one night if what we just had was a date. I got a vague, wishy-washy response that she “likes to hang out with people as friends and see how it goes,” and that I “think too much.” This remains the only input I have, two months and several eetings for dinner, etc. later. Not yes, not no, not anything in particular. I’ve about resolved that SOMEBODY should make up their mind, and if it’s not her, then it will be me.