Why does every damn social meeting have to involve the whole fucking family?

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@Acsenray

Might not your “fair share” embrace the concept of both you and your wife getting the opportunity for some time away from the rest of the family?

No.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@purplehorseshoe

Sweetie, your kids are watching your marriage. They will model future relationships after what they grow up seeing. What kind of lessons are you teaching them, about things like standing up for yourself, about a person’s worth as a human being?

I’m teaching my kids that I’m a present father who shares equally in the parenting and does not believe that going out and partying with buddies is some kind of entitlement.

[rogerbox]

Spending time with your friends actually is an entitlement in reasonable balanced relationships, though. I’m glad you appear happy in yours, but I would not enjoy something like that.

[DianaG]

Dio, I know you’re used to every post in a thread being addressed to you, but that one was actually for Leaffan, I think.

[tdn]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

I’m teaching my kids that I’m a present father who shares equally in the parenting and does not believe that going out and partying with buddies is some kind of entitlement.

That’s great, and if you choose to live your life that way, then fantastic. But you’re coming off as judging others who don’t share your sentiment.

[Leaffan]

@purplehorseshoe

Sweetie, your kids are watching your marriage. They will model future relationships after what they grow up seeing. What kind of lessons are you teaching them, about things like standing up for yourself, about a person’s worth as a human being?

Do you want your daughter to grow up into a control freak like the mother she knows? Do you want your son to marry someone who heaps the same brand of shit onto his head? (Apologies: I don’t know your kids’ gender.) People seek out what’s familiar. If this BS you put up with from your wife is all they know, then, by God, they’re going to seek it out as adults themselves.

Staying together “for the sake of the children” has fucked up many people, permanently. I say that as the product of such a marriage. My parents would have been infinitely better off divorced, and being better people might have made them better parents. As it was, they were shit for parents, in large part because they spent their time controlling each other (or trying to), screaming at each other, and just generally shredding each others’ souls.

Divorcing your controlling wife does not at all equal “leaving your kids.” In fact, from my perspective, it would be the best thing for them.
(Acsenray totally said it was OK for me to hijack his thread. )

I’ve obviously heard all of this before.

There’s no screaming. There’s no fighting, and frankly the kids wouldn’t really be able to tell that she’s controlling and I’m acquiescing.

They might see a rather bland, standoff’ish relationship, but not everyone is your typical lovey-dovey couple.

It’s not like I’m storming around yelling because I can’t go hang out with the boys when I want to, and I still am getting out for my 9 holes of golf once a week.

Because of the way my wife is, somewhat self-centred, I do a lot with and for the kids. Without me their life would be worse. Trust me.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@rogerbox

Why is your wife taking care of the kids “stuck” if you enjoy your family’s company so much? Secondly you sound co-dependant to me if you can’t have a friendship other than your wife (I wouldn’t consider anyone my friend I am not allowed to hang out with alone).

I am engaged and I hope to hell my marriage ends up being a lot more balanced and healthy than one where I need an “excuse” to have a friend, and I’m head over heels in love with my fiance, but a relationship where you cannot spend time alone/with others is very limited and out of balance IMO. I want to, and deserve, a couple nights a month where I can go watch a fight with my guy friends and be crude as hell.

You pretty much don’t have any frame of experience or knowledge to espouse an informed opinion. Cram your “co-dependency” slur up your ass. It’s called being a mature adult and a responsible parent. These are concepts you will learn if you stay married and have kids.

For the record, I’m “allowed” to do anything the fuck I want. I just don’t WANT to ditch my wife with the kids, because taking care of those kids is hard work and she needs help.

I also -get this - love my kids, and I’d usually rather do something with them and my wife then abandon them to go do something less fun people I don’t care as much about.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@tdn

That’s great, and if you choose to live your life that way, then fantastic. But you’re coming off as judging others who don’t share your sentiment.

I’m responding to an OP and to other posters who are bitching that some guys prefer their families to their friends. I am responding to being judged. I didn’t start it.

[rogerbox]

@tdn

That’s great, and if you choose to live your life that way, then fantastic. But you’re coming off as judging others who don’t share your sentiment.

This is the only problem I have with Dio’s lifestyle, that he thinks he is superior to adults who can manage their time/kids well enough to have the occasional night out. If it makes him happy more power to him, but he is NOT better than another father who manages to occasionally spend an evening with the guys. :rolleyes:

edit: EVERY guy “bitching” at you Dio ALSO prefers their families to their friends, they just can balance their relationships enough to be able to detach themselves from their spouse for the occasional evening. I’m sure their “default” is time with their spouse and kids just the same as you, they are just not as obsessive about it.

[Zeriel]

@Vihaga

I’m not actually disagreeing with you; I was trying to explain that sometimes people just decide that it’s not worth it to them to have friends that don’t include their family, and that, in my opinion, there’s nothing wrong with that.

Likewise, I don’t totally disagree with that, but I do think it’s possible for it to be a touch excessive.

[rogerbox]

BTW Dio honest question for you, if your family is ALWAYS together and you have 3 kids, do you never spend alone time 1 on 1 with your children, or 1 on 1 with your wife and one of the kids?

[DoctorJ]

When I was a kid and one of my parents would go do his/her own thing, I didn’t think of it as times when Mom/Dad was gone–I thought of it as time I got to spend with just Dad/Mom. Just like when they would go away for the weekend, and it wasn’t time when Mom and Dad dumped me off, it was time I got to spend with my grandparents.

I think one of the most important things you can do as a parent, aside from the whole feeding/clothing/educating/protecting from wolves type stuff, is to be a fully formed adult with adult interests, adult relationships, and adult achievements. How can you expect the kids to form their own identities if their parents don’t have identities themselves??

[Zeriel]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

My 11 year old is pretty calm. My 6 year old is a hurricane in human form. My 2 year old is in her terrible twos. It’s not just about them either, there’s also all kinds of other shit that has to be done on the weekends, plus I already work on the weekends, so my time at home is already limited on those days, and when I get done with work, I need to give my wife a break.

I gotta admit, I just don’t understand people who structure their work lives such that every minute away from it is necessary to give of family time/housework time their due. I’m not saying it’s BAD, hell, you sound like my small-business-owning, 80±hour-weeks dad, I’m just saying I don’t understand making those choices.

I occasionally meet a friend for dinner, if they happen to be in town (like I said, most of my friends live in other states. I’m a transplant here), it’s not like my wife won’t [i[let* me, I just don’t like to very often.

So in other words, you don’t actually disagree with the idea that it is occasionally desirable and fair to your spouse for you to go out without her and the kids, or her to do so without you and the kids.

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

I’m teaching my kids that I’m a present father who shares equally in the parenting and does not believe that going out and partying with buddies is some kind of entitlement.

That’s an awfully harsh way of putting “hey, can I go hang out with my friends for a few hours doing something cool that isn’t kid-friendly? I’ll watch 'em for you to go do something with your friends next weekend.”.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@rogerbox

BTW Dio honest question for you, if your family is ALWAYS together and you have 3 kids, do you never spend alone time 1 on 1 with your children, or 1 on 1 with your wife and one of the kids?

I didn’t say my family was “always together.”

I do consciously make one-on-one time with my kids (I’m going to take my oldest out to see a Rifftrax Live show next week, for example), and so does my wife.

There isn’t a way for us to do 2 on 1 time with a single kid, though, and I haven’t had significant one-on-one time with my wife in over a decade.

[tdn]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

I haven’t had significant one-on-one time with my wife in over a decade.

Be careful about that. Last year was the first time that my brother and his wife could be anything other than parents in 30 years. When the nest emptied out, they realized that they forgot how to be lovers, and ended up separating for several months. Things turned out well for them, but they could just as easily be divorced now.

[muldoonthief]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

There isn’t a way for us to do 2 on 1 time with a single kid, though, and I haven’t had significant one-on-one time with my wife in over a decade.

So where did the 6 year old and 2 year old come from? Or wasn’t that significant?

[Mewl_Dear]

Fuck.
I had to read all that crap just to make sure this hadn’t been addressed.
OP build a man cave. Only allow men. If anyone wants to hang with the wife and kids fine.

[jz78817]

Is it me or are Dio’s posts starting to sound like the rationalizations of a miserable person?

[rogerbox]

@jz78817

Is it me or are Dio’s posts starting to sound like the rationalizations of a miserable person?

By judging others who have a healthier lifestyle than him for “partying” and being bad fathers for having the occasional night out, yes. :rolleyes:

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

My kids are 11, 6 and 2.

Yes, when they’re older, it will not be such a big deal for one of us to take off somewhere for an afternoon, but right now it’s still a circus.

When our kids were on lower end of this range my husband gave up golf. We both work and for him to be gone 6 hours or so on the weekend couldn’t happen. He wasn’t thrilled, but it just had to be. Shorter outings were fine, occasionally (he traveled a lot for work and was gone). When the kids got older (pre-teen, teen) I bought him a membership to the local golf club. The time was right and he knows I appreciated his willingness to put his time on hold.